Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Son Of Coco]

The whole appeal was an absolute farce put on by the ICC to keep the Indians happy. When there big flash High Court judge came along and didn't even know Harbhajan's record before sentencing it makes it seem like there was something underhanded afoot.

Money talks and bull**** walks.

I was amazed when he said he wasn't aware of Harbhajan's past record...what does he get paid for?

 

[silentstriker]

I was amazed when he said he wasn't aware of Harbhajan's past record...what does he get paid for?

Huh? Who gets paid for? It's not the Judge's responsibility to investigate people's past record. ICC has to present relevant past behavior. You can't do background checks on everyone in a six hour hearing.

 

[jeevan]

Yes, but I'm asking what do people think would've happened if Proctor only banned him for one.

If this is a survey, I too come down on the side of - wouldnt have made a bit of difference.
Three match ban for a 2.8 offense would've worked much better, I quite agree with that.

Three things sealed it:
- Think the BCCI official has it right, very hard for Indians to accept a charge of racism.
[ Whether such charges have a basis or not is a different question, and certainly Indians
have their own sins and prejudices, but Indians as a group have gone farther than most
in fighting them (Gandhi in SA, upto supporting Mandela) and trying to clean their own house
(reservations) ]. This, pretty much, was the crux of Harbhajan's mother getting upset over this episode*.
- Tendulkar stuck his neck out. Again whether he was privy to all that went on or not is
a different question. But Proctor clearly disregarded his testimony and while Indians
are ready to suspect the worst about Harbhajan, Tendulkar is in a very different
class. (clearly was enough for me to think that this was not a cut and dried case).
- The Australian players had no real proof, there was enough reason to suspect a misunderstanding (for eg I would expect Harbhajan to come out swinging in Hindi and not English if he really loses it), and most of all didnt seem that there were any lofty principles involved as far as Symonds was concerned.


(* Personally : Harbhajan has many undesirable qualities, one of which is a lack of control over his emotions and behaviour. However, he strikes me as one of the Indian players with fewest airs and most likely to be at home amongst the masses, to be stereotypically precise - in a dhaba. Very hard to associate that quality with racism. )

 

[Fusion]

Wake up and smell the prejudice.

Excellent article I thought. The article could apply 100% to Pakistan as well. I think many people from the subcontinent don't fully understand what racism means. Many think that they can't possibly be racists because they themselves are often victims of racism from the Western world. We definitely have a complex about skin color and we say some of the most awful things about blacks. Now I may agree with those that say that the context of our racism is different from that of a white person. Meaning I don't think many in the sub-continent believe themselves to be superior to another race. However, we still have prejudices and hold deeply insulting stereotypes of people of color. I think we do indeed need to "wake up".

 

[silentstriker]

Wake up and smell the prejudice.

Excellent article I thought. The article could apply 100% to Pakistan as well. I think many people from the subcontinent don't fully understand what racism means. Many think that they can't possibly be racists because they themselves are often victims of racism from the Western world. We definitely have a complex about skin color and we say some of the most awful things about blacks. Now I may agree with those that say that the context of our racism is different from that of a white person. Meaning I don't think many in the sub-continent believe themselves to be superior to another race. However, we still have prejudices and hold deeply insulting stereotypes of people of color. I think we do indeed need to "wake up".

Don't disagree with either you or the article. Though I have to disagree in that I used sister****er all the time in normal language with friends. But maybe I was just a foul mouthed little boy. I would get killed if I said it to some random person though.

 

[Cevno]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23140899-5000117,00.html

good article

 

[silentstriker]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23140899-5000117,00.html

good article

That's a good article too. Except I disagree with him in that I think racial slurs are worse than simple profanity. But other than that, it was pretty good.

 

[jeevan]

Well Symonds cant be punished because the Indian team have not filed any complaint against him. (They should've charged him and not poor Hogg).

The irony of this situation is that Harbhajan, who all of us - including Indians - are so willing to write off as a dim-witted, hot headed jerk - was actually paying a non-jerky compliment to an opponent.

Symonds, who atleast half of us are potraying as an honest, upright individual, and definitely the victim of abuse - was actually trying to stop this type of sportsmanship.

And stop it by breaching a no-trash talk agreement specifically with Harbhajan. Now it is quite clear why Tendulkar and Kumble stood their ground. Good for them, the original sportsman-like act from Harbhajan needs to be encouraged and protected from self-serving manipulators like Symonds.

 

[Pratters]

Wake up and smell the prejudice.

Excellent article I thought. The article could apply 100% to Pakistan as well. I think many people from the subcontinent don't fully understand what racism means. Many think that they can't possibly be racists because they themselves are often victims of racism from the Western world. We definitely have a complex about skin color and we say some of the most awful things about blacks. Now I may agree with those that say that the context of our racism is different from that of a white person. Meaning I don't think many in the sub-continent believe themselves to be superior to another race. However, we still have prejudices and hold deeply insulting stereotypes of people of color. I think we do indeed need to "wake up".

There are huge prejudices in the subcontinent. There is a mentality among people that the fairer a person, the better looking the person is for instance. However, I don't think that we can term these prejudices with an as sharp a term as racism. People differentiate on the basis of colour but not race.

The big evil in India has been castism in India and I am not sure whether that is racism or not as different people have different definitions of racism but it is definitely some thing very deplorable and similar to racism if not racism. The fairer skin prejudices we see in the subcontinent isn't racism though.

Racism as we know it in the outside world doesn't exist in India at large. We have people of many cultures, religions living in harmony with each other at large. We can even crack jokes at our own and other cultures and that is a good sign. It means that people are not too tight about each other and are easy going enough to laugh about each other's eccentricities. The jokes are not racist either as the people aren't believing x is superior to y. They are just friendly cracks just like say Lucky Eddie has cracked about New Zealanders and sheep and people crack about the Poms.

Just my two cents.

 

[silentstriker]

There are huge prejudices in the subcontinent. There is a mentality among people that the fairer a person, the better looking the person is for instance. However, I don't think that we can term these prejudices with an as sharp a term as racism. People differentiate on the basis of colour but not race.

The big evil in India has been castism in India and I am not sure whether that is racism or not as different people have different definitions of racism but it is definitely some thing very deplorable and similar to racism if not racism. The fairer skin prejudices we see in the subcontinent isn't racism though.

Racism as we know it in the outside world doesn't exist in India at large. We have people of many cultures, religions living in harmony with each other at large. We can even crack jokes at our own and other cultures and that is a good sign. It means that people are not too tight about each other and are easy going enough to laugh about each other's eccentricities. The jokes are not racist either as the people aren't believing x is superior to y. They are just friendly cracks just like say Lucky Eddie has cracked about New Zealanders and sheep and people crack about the Poms.

Just my two cents.

As mentioned in the article, try being an African student. I knew of a couple in Vadodara where I am from, and you'll see racism at its worst.

 

[Pratters]

As mentioned in the article, try being an African student. I knew of a couple in Vadodara where I am from, and you'll see racism at its worst.

Hyperbole in the piece. We have African players plying their trade in the popular football teams in Kolkata. Cheema Okerie is a legend in our parts. Now some one might feel that the African student is not as handsome as say a British white but there would be similar prejudices against a British darker skinned person who came to study in India to the African black. These prejudices are dire but they are not racist.

 

[Anil]

Hyperbole in the piece. We have African players plying their trade in the popular football teams in Kolkata. Cheema Okerie is a legend in our parts. Now some one might feel that the African student is not as handsome as say a British white but there would be similar prejudices against a British darker skinned person who came to study in India to the African black. These prejudices are dire but they are not racist.

how would you term that kind of prejudice, if not racist? it is based on the person's skin colour and possibly facial features as well which in turn is inextricably linked to his/her race...among indians, casteism which is at the root of much of the forced stratification in hindu society is really a more complex(and just as evil) form of racism...

 

[jeevan]

As mentioned in the article, try being an African student. I knew of a couple in Vadodara where I am from, and you'll see racism at its worst.

Separate drinking fountains? Denied entry into hotels and other establishments? Lynching? Slavery? In Vadodra?? (Indians are capable of all of the above, asking if any of these happened to your friends to merit thinkking that you've seen racism at it's worst).

See the Siddi's in India for perhaps the only clean experiment on racism in India. They were brought in as slaves and remain fairly marginalized AFAIK. But no more nor less than those at the lowest socioeconomic rungs of society (which the rigid stratification of casteism allows limited opportunities historically). And some Siddis did well due to certain talents that they had, including establishing their kingdoms.

 

[Pratters]

how would you term that kind of prejudice, if not racist? it is based on the person's skin colour and possibly facial features as well which in turn is inextricably linked to his/her race

Nah, the fairer/darker prejudices aren't based on race at all. If a Bengali is darker, there is prejudice against him. If a Chinese is darker, there is prejudice against him. People favour fairer skinned sibling compared to the darker skinned sibling in the same family. As I said, it is dire but not racist.

The caste aspect which you said, it is subjective whether it is racist or not but it is as bad as racism according to me concept wise (as I said earlier). Thankfully, things have improved from the past in this front after the Raja Ram Mohan Roy reforms more than 100 years back. It is still dire that castism exists in India but it is not as bad as before (though that doesn't mean that it is right in whatever shape and form wherever it exists).

Now don't think that I am trying to defend India or the subcontinent or do not have much idea about racism because I do (to any one who might feel this way) . I am the kind of person who believes that the life of animals, birds or any other living creature is as precious as the life of humans and so forget humans, I am very sensitive towards all life. I am strongly against racism but the colour biasness we see in India is not racism.

 

[Salamuddin]

Huh? Who gets paid for? It's not the Judge's responsibility to investigate people's past record. ICC has to present relevant past behavior. You can't do background checks on everyone in a six hour hearing.

Precisely and Harbhjan's past record would have only affected his sentencing. It is irrelevant to whether he used his alleged racial slur or not so I don't know why people keep harping on about that.

Harbhajan may be a hot tempered twit but racism is on a different scale altogether and I'm a little irked that some people are automatically assuming that hey because he has transgressed ICC code of conduct for good behaviiour in the past he must have used that racial slur.

There's gotta be proof beyond reasonable doubt for mine that Harbhajan did use that slur and given that Symonds himself has admitted that he can't be sure what Harbhajan said.....I don't see how he could have not have been acquitted.

 

[Anil]

Nah, the fairer/darker prejudices aren't based on race at all. If a Bengali is darker, there is prejudice against him. If a Chinese is darker, there is prejudice against him. People favour fairer skinned sibling compared to the darker skinned sibling in the same family. As I said, it is dire but not racist.

this is slightly different from the kind of prejudices i mentioned though...in my opinion, the kind of discrimination that you mention above is due to an inferiority complex among indians(to a certain extent, this can be explained as a hangover from 400 odd years of being colonized and enslaved but it also seems to be deeply ingrained in the subcontinental psyche) when they compare themselves to white folks...seems to be getting lesser and lesser with every succeeding generation though...

 

[Son Of Coco]

Huh? Who gets paid for? It's not the Judge's responsibility to investigate people's past record. ICC has to present relevant past behavior. You can't do background checks on everyone in a six hour hearing.

I didn't realise it was set up the same way a normal court operates...no wonder it was a shambles The ICC were always going to present the evidence to the best of their ability given the way the situation was played out...given that it was only one person who was up for the hearing (Harbhajan) I wouldn't think there'd be too much digging needed to find out what he got up to during his career.

 

[Pratters]

this is slightly different from the kind of prejudices i mentioned though

Don't get you. I have addressed the points.

 

[FRAZ]

Harbhajan may be a hot tempered twit but racism is on a different scale altogether and I'm a little irked that some people are automatically assuming that hey because he has transgressed ICC code of conduct for good behaviiour in the past he must have used that racial slur.
.

Well said !

 

[silentstriker]

We have African players plying their trade in the popular football teams in Kolkata.

So? What's that got to do with the daily racism? Try getting a house for rent as an African student in Vadodara.

Now some one might feel that the African student is not as handsome as say a British white but there would be similar prejudices against a British darker skinned person who came to study in India to the African black. These prejudices are dire but they are not racist.

Handsome? It's got nothing to do with 'handsome'.