**Official** England in New Zealand

[James]

Isn't that six bowlers?

Wouldn't it be better to have Hitchcock and Patel (or Martin) excluded and pick another batsman?

Or, given that batsman would be Ryder, maybe not?

Definately need another batsman, there's no way you can have Vettori coming in at 7, and besides that team has 7 bowlers anyway including Styris.

 

[sportychic33]

Isn't that six bowlers?

Wouldn't it be better to have Hitchcock and Patel (or Martin) excluded and pick another batsman?

Or, given that batsman would be Ryder, maybe not?

True, it is a bit bowler heavy that is due to me not being a big fan of Ryder ( don't think this seasons form warrants selection although he has been making steps in the right direction) and I also want to keep Oram at 6 unless they use Oram as a floating batsman.

 

[sportychic33]

so on reflection. . .

my team:

McCullum
How ( although the selectors will probably put Ryder in here)
Fulton
Styris
Taylor
Ryder
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Mason
Martin

what the selectors will probably pick

McCullum
Ryder
How
Fulton
Styris
Taylor
Oram
Vettori
Mills
Hitchcock
Martin

Specialist 12th/13th men: Patel and Mason

 

[Richard]

I'm trying to think of some more batsmen who should be in the frame TBH. Astle, McMillan and Fleming, sadly, are a big loss. And aside from Hay, with a top-score of 60-odd, I've not heard many names of much note.

Guess Sinclair, though he's not that much of a OD player himself, would surely be a better pick than Ryder?

Or would some people prefer to give Vincent yet another go?

 

[Mixmasterreece]

Never heard of Southee myself What sort of player is he? I take it he's a bowler?

He's the great white bowling hope of NZ Cricket.

Only 19, but in a few years should be bowling around the 145 mark.

Good mover of the ball.

 

[Dick Rockett]

You say this as if it's a problem unique to New Zealand. Happens pretty much everywhere

In reflection, I'm sure it does, but I don't follow the selection conundrums in other countries and hadn't been aware of it happening elsewhere.

I know why they do it - NZC sees ODIs as a "lesser" form of the game (which it is I guess) and therefore feel it's more appropriate to experiment with fringe selections in that format. I wouldn't have a problem with this line of thinking if they didn't always assume that a player's failure in limited overs internationals means that they'll never succeed in tests, and therefore discard them. I shudder when I think of how many potentially excellent players we've consigned to the screapheap because of this idiotic thinking.

 

[sportychic33]

I'm trying to think of some more batsmen who should be in the frame TBH. Astle, McMillan and Fleming, sadly, are a big loss. And aside from Hay, with a top-score of 60-odd, I've not heard many names of much note.

Guess Sinclair, though he's not that much of a OD player himself, would surely be a better pick than Ryder?

Or would some people prefer to give Vincent yet another go?

I think Sinclair has been unfairly left out of the team, hardly got a chance in the ODIs against Bangladesh and has been doing alright for CD in the Twenty20 format.
He has my support if he goes of seeking money in the ICL or County Cricket.
Vincent hardly warrants a go, has played a couple of Twenty20 games since returning from SA/Aus tour sighting Exhaustion for the reason for a month break ( it is summer and you are paid to play Cricket in my opinion) and wasn't in form in the SA tour so that would be a ridiculous selection.

 

[Richard]

In reflection, I'm sure it does, but I don't follow the selection conundrums in other countries and hadn't been aware of it happening elsewhere.

I know why they do it - NZC sees ODIs as a "lesser" form of the game (which it is I guess) and therefore feel it's more appropriate to experiment with fringe selections in that format. I wouldn't have a problem with this line of thinking if they didn't always assume that a player's failure in limited overs internationals means that they'll never succeed in tests, and therefore discard them. I shudder when I think of how many potentially excellent players we've consigned to the screapheap because of this idiotic thinking.

Yep, and I've thought exactly that for 10 or 20 players over here the last decade too. So I'm sure have those from other countries who do not fall for this muddled thinking.

I hope that maybe one day it'll have a stop put to it but I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[Natman20]

I don't get these selectors one bit. They pick a player on form which is Sinclair and then they replace him with one that has little to show this season but a half century in a recent t20 game. They didn't pick Ryder when he looked best.

They picked Southee to try and bring in a promising player into the squad to fill in Bonds spot. If you look at his stats over the last season he has hardly been a striking weapon but rather an expense in the bowling attack. When will the selectors see reality instead of reacting on what cricketwebers say a year too late.

 

[Flem274*]

Thank you for the vote of confidence Heath

Hitchcock-If Mason was injured, Thompson was injured, Scott was injured, Adams was injured, fine. But they're not. He is out of form atm and the previously mentioned bowlers are better anyway, and don't you contradict me Heath because I never said he was better than Thompson, Scott and Adams.

Ryder-NO NO NO NO NO. Our openinf partnership is fine. How is the perfect foil for McCullum. I wouldn't have this fat **** at 6 either because the best finishers are quick between the wickets, something which Ryder struggles at. In ODIs he's the next Afridi, only differnece will be that he'll make a good test batsman as in tests he can rely on boundaries easier than limited overs.

Matt Sinclair-In good limited overs nick for Central atm, I'd use him but probably higher up the order.

Tim Southee-Hmm personally think he's one of the best bowlers we have already though his FC record as of yet doesn't show his true quality. I like the idea of his use in 20/20 but I'll go on a murderous rampage if he plays a test at 19. Who are the English 20/20 op[eners? Can see him owning the likes of Maddy but Pietersen and Collingwoods greater experience could cause him some issues.

 

[Mixmasterreece]

I don't get these selectors one bit. They pick a player on form which is Sinclair and then they replace him with one that has little to show this season but a half century in a recent t20 game. They didn't pick Ryder when he looked best.

They picked Southee to try and bring in a promising player into the squad to fill in Bonds spot. If you look at his stats over the last season he has hardly been a striking weapon but rather an expense in the bowling attack. When will the selectors see reality instead of reacting on what cricketwebers say a year too late.

I cant disagree with Southee's selection. Its an eye towards the future as Southee will lead the NZ attack in the future, without a doubt.

He's not quite quick enough yet, but will gain 5 - 10kphs more over the next few years - to be honest has an amazing array of skills for a 19 year old, good line and length, nice variation, good movement.

From all account he has bowled very well in the T20 with little reward. This experience will do him well.

 

[Flem274*]

I cant disagree with Southee's selection. Its an eye towards the future as Southee will lead the NZ attack in the future, without a doubt.

He's not quite quick enough yet, but will gain 5 - 10kphs more over the next few years.

From all account he has bowled very well in the T20 with little reward. This experience will do him well.

Southee bowled well against a CD side loaded with NZ batsmen (How, Taylor, Sinclair, Oram)

 

[Mixmasterreece]

Southee This Season :

State ChampionShip
21 4 90 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
5 0 25 1 (Nevin)
30.2 11 61 4 vs Cant (Stewart, Myburgh, Hiini, Lonsdale)
13 2 51 2 (Stewart, Van Wyk)
20 10 36 1 vs CD (Hay)
12 0 42 0
24 7 68 6 vs Auck (Mcintosh, Jones, Guptill, Young, Adams, Schaw)

State Shield
10 0 63 0 vs Auck
6 0 38 1 vs CD (Griggs)
10 1 43 3 vs Wgtn (Ryder, Parlane, Gillespie)
10 1 53 0 vs Cant
9:3 0 49 1 vs Otago (Morgan)

Twenty20
4 0 28 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
4 0 24 1 vs Auck (Jones)
3 0 20 0 vs Otago
4 0 33 2 vs CD (Barnett, How)
4 0 37 0 vs Cant

 

[Dick Rockett]

Southee This Season :

State ChampionShip
21 4 90 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
5 0 25 1 (Nevin)
30.2 11 61 4 vs Cant (Stewart, Myburgh, Hiini, Lonsdale)
13 2 51 2 (Stewart, Van Wyk)
20 10 36 1 vs CD (Hay)
12 0 42 0
24 7 68 6 vs Auck (Mcintosh, Jones, Guptill, Young, Adams, Schaw)

State Shield
10 0 63 0 vs Auck
6 0 38 1 vs CD (Griggs)
10 1 43 3 vs Wgtn (Ryder, Parlane, Gillespie)
10 1 53 0 vs Cant
9:3 0 49 1 vs Otago (Morgan)

Twenty20
4 0 28 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
4 0 24 1 vs Auck (Jones)
3 0 20 0 vs Otago
4 0 33 2 vs CD (Barnett, How)
4 0 37 0 vs Cant

So aside from two good FC performances, Southee's done bugger all?

 

[Richard]

Southee This Season :

State ChampionShip
21 4 90 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
5 0 25 1 (Nevin)
30.2 11 61 4 vs Cant (Stewart, Myburgh, Hiini, Lonsdale)
13 2 51 2 (Stewart, Van Wyk)
20 10 36 1 vs CD (Hay)
12 0 42 0
24 7 68 6 vs Auck (Mcintosh, Jones, Guptill, Young, Adams, Schaw)

State Shield
10 0 63 0 vs Auck
6 0 38 1 vs CD (Griggs)
10 1 43 3 vs Wgtn (Ryder, Parlane, Gillespie)
10 1 53 0 vs Cant
9:3 0 49 1 vs Otago (Morgan)

Twenty20
4 0 28 1 vs Wgtn (Nevin)
4 0 24 1 vs Auck (Jones)
3 0 20 0 vs Otago
4 0 33 2 vs CD (Barnett, How)
4 0 37 0 vs Cant

That truly is a bizarre mixture of figures in the First-Class game. Really expensive one minute, tight as a knot the next. Maybe a future Kiwi Jon Lewis?

Don't care greatly for the Twenty20 format but his OD figures are far from impressive. Very fortunate he's not been picked for the ODIs. Hopefully a Twenty20 or two won't do him any harm.

 

[Mixmasterreece]

Tim Southee-Hmm personally think he's one of the best bowlers we have already though his FC record as of yet doesn't show his true quality. I like the idea of his use in 20/20 but I'll go on a murderous rampage if he plays a test at 19.

You won't see him playing tests in the near future. He wont play England here or over there in May, and they certainly wont debut him against the Aussies in November.

Possibly in December against the WI, but more than likely sometime in 2009.

 

[Richard]

Thank you for the vote of confidence Heath

Hitchcock-If Mason was injured, Thompson was injured, Scott was injured, Adams was injured, fine. But they're not. He is out of form atm and the previously mentioned bowlers are better anyway, and don't you contradict me Heath because I never said he was better than Thompson, Scott and Adams.

Ryder-NO NO NO NO NO. Our openinf partnership is fine. How is the perfect foil for McCullum. I wouldn't have this fat **** at 6 either because the best finishers are quick between the wickets, something which Ryder struggles at. In ODIs he's the next Afridi, only differnece will be that he'll make a good test batsman as in tests he can rely on boundaries easier than limited overs.

Matt Sinclair-In good limited overs nick for Central atm, I'd use him but probably higher up the order.

Tim Southee-Hmm personally think he's one of the best bowlers we have already though his FC record as of yet doesn't show his true quality. I like the idea of his use in 20/20 but I'll go on a murderous rampage if he plays a test at 19. Who are the English 20/20 op[eners? Can see him owning the likes of Maddy but Pietersen and Collingwoods greater experience could cause him some issues.

Plhyelgm, is there any chance you could change that list in your current sig to a one-after-the-other, rather than a one-below-the-other? Would save one hell of a lot of space.

 

[Flem274*]

So aside from two good FC performances, Southee's done bugger all?

Which is why I'll be furious to see Southee playing tests at 19. Swings the ball alot and is fairly accurate but he maxs out at 135 which just isn't fast enough to trouble international batsmen.

Speaking of under 19 players, Trent Boult should be the next to give some experience too once he's older. He's 16 or 17 and looks like James Franklin, he's a left arm swing bowler too. Bowls about 133 to 135 with good swing and has a very good yorker.

 

[Flem274*]

Plhyelgm, is there any chance you could change that list in your current sig to a one-after-the-other, rather than a one-below-the-other? Would save one hell of a lot of space.

Sure Rycharld

 

[Mixmasterreece]

So aside from two good FC performances, Southee's done bugger all?

Yes, but it's for development purposes - and his T20 stats are very promising

It's not just about his stats, its the base of skills he has. Giving him shots against top class batsmen is trying to build him into a better bowler in the longterm. He aint going to be making the blackcaps anytime soon.

Once bowlers like Boult and Southee pick up 10kphs each, experiences like this will help them without a doubt.

And to be honest Boult and Southee are the pick of our young bowling talent. Every opportunity should be taken to give opportunities to learn before they hit the big time. Instead of just learning to bowl to dismiss half-assed nz domestic cricketers.