Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[BoyBrumby]

Apparently the stump mic's may have picked up something after all.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ausvind/content/story/333733.html

Hope it is audible enough, will be able to settle this matter once for all.
We've all been speculating way too much.

Weird. Why has this only now come to light? The more cynically-minded might think it's been sat on until the end of the test series...

I don't want to prejudge anything, but should Harbhajan's guilt be proven one would hope the ban is increased to take account of him being somewhat economical with the actualité.

 

[Richard]

Weird. Why has this only now come to light? The more cynically-minded might think it's been sat on until the end of the test series...

If so, that'd be the sensible thing to have done, no?

 

[BoyBrumby]

If so, that'd be the sensible thing to have done, no?

Hmm. Not convinced. If the transcript does show the slur was used it's the smoking gun and had it have been available beforehand the BCCI would've been left defending the indefensible.

As it is the BCCI's brinkmanship has been rewarded by having Habhajan available for the second half of the series.

 

[Nishant]

IMHO...if there was evidence gainst Harbhajan, then it should ahve been used earler and not kept in the dark for such a long time. In the last few weeks, a lot of people have defended harbhajan including the BCCI...now it will make them look like idiots if this evidnece shows that Bhajji clearly made racist remarks.

 

[Richard]

Hmm. Not convinced. If the transcript does show the slur was used it's the smoking gun and had it have been available beforehand the BCCI would've been left defending the indefensible.

As it is the BCCI's brinkmanship has been rewarded by having Habhajan available for the second half of the series.

Well, knowing the BCCI I'd not put it past them to continue to defend even in the face of all reason TBH. Either way, much safer to play safe, no? Just ensure the series is safely played-out, then play a little game of tug-of-war between I$C$C and B$C$C$I with time on the side and no "this stops now or else!" tactics available.

 

[Jono]

Convicted before a civil court and ordered to pay 60 odd million to the victims' families

In civil court, decision is based on weight of evidence (e.g. word of 3 cricketers vs 1) rather than beyond a reasonable doubt (as was the case in OJ's criminal trial weher he was found not guilty)

Thankyou gentlemen, next case please

Whilst you're correct regarding the civil proceedings, your use of the word 'convicted' was improper. You aren't convicted in a civil trial, and that was what mislead Prince EWS I assume.

And as a fourth year law student, I must say that some of the claims here regarding how civil trials are run are way off the mark.

Yes, those who state that cases are decided on the balance of probabily are correct, but that isn't based on a majority of parties claiming one thing, compared to a minority claiming another. A whole array of factors come into it, including character, past history etc. Harbhajan may have been found liable for damages under a civil proceeding, but not simply because 4 (or however many) Australian players claimed he said the term 'monkey' whilst he (or he and Sachin) don't. It'd be Harbhajan's dodgy past, his fiery character etc. which would further result in the decision.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well, knowing the BCCI I'd not put it past them to continue to defend even in the face of all reason TBH. Either way, much safer to play safe, no? Just ensure the series is safely played-out, then play a little game of tug-of-war between I$C$C and B$C$C$I with time on the side and no "this stops now or else!" tactics available.

It depends entirely on whether you considering pandering to an unreasonable whim acceptable or not, I suppose. There is every chance that the BCCI would've continued rattling its piggy-bank, but without the figleaf of Harbhajan's unproven guilt it would've looked entirely craven in doing so.

 

[Richard]

Well it looks bad to many people with many of the things it does at the current time. If those in charge of it get what they're aiming for, it doesn't really matter.

As it is, they can no longer call-off the Test series.

 

[jeevan]

It depends entirely on whether you considering pandering to an unreasonable whim acceptable or not, I suppose. There is every chance that the BCCI would've continued rattling its piggy-bank, but without the figleaf of Harbhajan's unproven guilt it would've looked entirely craven in doing so.

Agree fully, also dont believe the BCCI is a monolithic entity - some within BCCI would've expressed non-party line opinions if hard evidence was presented.

Also agree with additional penalty / censure for Harbhajan if indeed he is guilty.

With perhaps some sort of censure for Proctor if there is a scarcity of such evidence. I simply dont get the way Proctor ran this (he had prep time of 2 days). Didnt keep transcripts, didnt (apparently, per the news report) use stump mic recordings - just what did he think he was doing. It is OK to run that hearing to the level of civil court standards of proof (though I am unconvinced that Hayden & Clarke evidence is adequate for this), but it is not OK to run it sloppily so.

 

[JBH001]

Dont know if I agree with the full penalty if Harbhajan is indeed found guilty.

A racist remark after all does not necessarily imply a racist.

And, imo, Harbhajan is not a racist. Just a silly twit with a quick temper and a fast mouth.

 

[Burgey]

The talk is that the stump mike didn't pick up what HBS said, but rather Clarke's talk with the umpires afterwards. Suppose we'll all know by tomorrow.

 

[Burgey]

If you forget about all the history of abuse then from a pure physical point of view if you could compare symonds to a animal it would be a "chimapnzee" like a "squirrel" with sachin or "giraffe" with mcgrath.
Anyway i am pretty sure like the aussie print press today that was reported over the top too as ravi shastri and wasim akram mentioned today.
It is funny how west indies,srilanka,england,newzealand and even pakistan (after wars)never complained about racism anytime in delhi but symonds did and then it spread arround to other grounds as it leaked to media.
If like monty he and the whole mgmt had chose to ignore the first incident of few it would not have grown and understood it was not meant to be racist hust fun of his physical looks(the first incident).

But did not mcgrath know before making ***ual comments about sarwan and lara that he would be offended?and what about other abuses aussies have dished out over the years ,did they think opposition enjoyed it?
As the ex aussie prime minster said that "it was somethings aussies do" since he was seeing it as a aussie and from his countries perspective.
Similarly calling someone a monkey based on his build,hair and facial features is similar to someone calling mcgrath a "giraffe" from a indian point of view.And it is not racist.
My point is that it was in no way be intended to be a comment that showed superoirity of his ethnicity over others.As his english is not good enough he just said what came to his mind(if he did) quickly to just respond to symond's abuse in quick time .as not giving him a upper hand in that argument.
You could say that he should have known about aussie history of abuse before saying it but then i could contend that symonds should have known about India having a monkey god before contending it was racist as it could hurt people too.

Some section of Indian media are bashing the aussies and have Just faintly criticised symonds but they are not as unbalanced and stupid as the australain media.
Sidhu,Kapil dev and Sandeep patil have criticised symonds and Sidhu and Dev have abslolutely slammed symonds as saying he should be punished for these false allegations if they are false even harshly.
Hayden has said that they have a strong case against bhaji but Indian team manager has replied that they are Honest and as they know that they will fight tooth and nail this case.
I would not want to be mike proctor at this time as it could get messy with lawyers coming in.
As for Benson covering his mouth while talking to bhajji is concerned perhaps ponting went complaining to them before and alleged that something racist was said and they were asking him that was it true and he denied on the spot.

But as confirmed by chappel and slater in commentary that this row is about harbhajan calling symonds allegedly a "monkey".But as harsha bhogle responded we have god in India who is a monkey called "hanuman".So questions have to be raised even if hypothetically assume that bhajji called him that is that racist?
We Indian's can take offence to the fact that this word is being called as an insult as it effectively means insulting our god "hanumana" and worshippers of him?It is all a thing of perspective but I feel the aussies are going overboard as they did in India and I would not put it past them trying to get him punised because of his tiff with ponting and trying to play pshycological games.
I also do not think bhajji was anyway showing his superiority of his race over his,even if he called him that it was in the heat of the moment and because of him being short of english words to respond quickly to abuse from symonds.

If you get a chance, have a look at "An Aussie Goes Bolly", episode 4, and tell me if you think the crowd in that episode are calling Symonds a monkey because they are worshipping him, or aren't doing it to racially denigrate him.
And before you say that's irrelevant, it isn't at all, because it's the very background to which HBS's case has been brought.
Whether he said it or not, I don't know.
Whether Tendulkar should be believed just because he's a legend of the game? Of course not.
Whether the fieldsmen should be believed just because there were more of them there? Of course not.
But:
If he said it, he has to go. Simple.

 

[Top_Cat]

Dont know if I agree with the full penalty if Harbhajan is indeed found guilty.

A racist remark after all does not necessarily imply a racist.

And, imo, Harbhajan is not a racist. Just a silly twit with a quick temper and a fast mouth.

Same could be said about Darren Lehmann, really. His racial epithet would have been the least of what he would have heard growing up in Elizabeth.

 

[pasag]

If you get a chance, have a look at "An Aussie Goes Bolly", episode 4, and tell me if you think the crowd in that episode are calling Symonds a monkey because they are worshipping him, or aren't doing it to racially denigrate him.
And before you say that's irrelevant, it isn't at all, because it's the very background to which HBS's case has been brought.
Whether he said it or not, I don't know.
Whether Tendulkar should be believed just because he's a legend of the game? Of course not.
Whether the fieldsmen should be believed just because there were more of them there? Of course not.
But:
If he said it, he has to go. Simple.

I watched that Aussie Goes Bolly episode last night (from the 7th ODI), really sickening stuff. Looked like one of those crazy soccer mobs you see from time to time. Been a long time critic of some Aussie cricket crowds and that was just as dire - racial taunts aside.

Anyways, the punishment should be in line with Gibbs ban at two Tests, it was more or less a similar comment so he should get the same thing.

 

[chalky]

BBC are reporting that Harbhjan has been cleared of racial abuse.

Skysoprts are also reporting it now.

edit: The charges have been dropped, the 3 match ban lifted but he has been fined 50% of his match fee. Very confusing if the charges have been dropped what has he been fined for?

It will be interesting to see if any other evidence was used or if the judge just interpreted the existing evidence differently to Proctor.

 

[biased indian]

Harbhajan cleared of racism charge, tour to go on

 

[pasag]

Yeah according to that, it seems like CA played a big part in this. Not so much withdrawing the charges, but along the same lines anyways. Seems like they wanted the whole thing to go away just as much as anyone.

 

[sideshowtim]

Gutless. I just saw the stump mic footage and it's incredibly damning against Harbhajan. It seems the ICC have caved into the BCCI once again. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[duffer]

Where's the footage available tim? Would love to see it myself.

 

[duffer]

Actually here's the transcript:

TRANSCRIPT of audio picked up from the Channel Nine stump microphone of alleged incident between Harbhajan Singh and Andrew Symonds at the SCG Test earlier this month.

Symonds walks up to Harbhajan at the end of an over.

Symonds: "Go and yell at your teammates .... You called me monkey again."

Matthew Hayden: "Twice. You've got a witness now champ."

Hayden approaches Harbhajan.

Hayden: "That's the last time."

Harbhajan: "No listen he started it."

Hayden: "Doesn't matter mate, it's racial vilification mate. It's a **** word and you know it."

Soon after, Michael Clarke approaches umpire Mark Benson.

Clarke: "It's not the first time. He done it in India and got into strife. That's the second time he's done it."

Captain Ricky Ponting walks up to Benson and gestures towards fellow umpire Steve Bucknor.

Ponting: "Go and tell him. Go and tell him straight away."

Well done Bhajji you idiot. So many people spent so long defending this douche as well.