*Official* Australia in decline thread

[shankar]

I think that pace is no issue for Sreesanth. He clocks in the low to mid 140kph range in his opening spells in ODIs since the England tour. I just think that the ball swung around too much for Sreesanth in England which meant he tried to slow down in order to get a better grip of accuracy.

Yeah agree with that. His strength is late movement and he wasnt able to control the banana swing he was getting in England. I think he'll be more useful in conditions where there is just a little help for swing. And looking at his career, the England series has been the only ordinary one in his career. He's been consistently turning in good performances otherwise.

 

[Jono]

I am so happy about RP... He hasn't been perfect with his line but still... Also, I was pleasantly surprised that during the Tea break interview on Star Cricket couple of days back, Benaud said that he was most impressed by RP among the Indian bowlers in England. It was interesting as it came from Benaud. Love RP so much.

On Sreesanth - He needs a lot of improving to be able to perform against quality sides imo. He can bowl some special balls but he also bowls stray deliveries which are enough to loosen the pressure. With Zaheer, Pathan, Ishant (who is so promising) and RP in the line up, Sreesanth has some very stiff competition.

Its interesting because the first time I heard Benaud say RP was India's best bowler in England, I raised an eyebrow and I just figured he had made a mistake. This was on C9.

Then he said it again on Star Cricket, and this time with great emphasis that whilst RP wasn't India's most successful bowler in England, he feels he bowled the best of the three. So he was more impressed by RP than Zaheer.

Interesting call. Both were fantastic, which is great.

 

[Perm]

I think I said it to Pratyush on MSN one day, but I rate RP Singh very, very highly. Has all the makings of a top notch seamer, just a little unfortunate he'll play half his games in India.

 

[Debris]

The thing is, it's not just one Test match, it's the last two Test matches. And the first one, was a big loss for obvious reasons (lack of prep), which I won't get into once again. Face it, Australia just haven't looked very hot shot for most part against India.

Same thing happened last time India came to Australia. I think it is more a case of India understanding how to play in Australia rather than anything Australia has done so the games actually look like a contest. And a lot of Indian players are exceptionally motivated as this is their last tour to Aus.

Plus Australia always tail off in dead matches. They did win when it counted.

 

[Matt79]

India undoubtedly 'match up' against Australia better than any other team out there. They're clearly the number 2 team at the moment, but hell, if they win in Adelaide, and sustain their form for the next little while, I'd be prepared to concede that they're better than Australia at the moment. Whether they can a) do that, and b) sustain their current level for any length of time, are the two big questions.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Same thing happened last time India came to Australia. I think it is more a case of India understanding how to play in Australia rather than anything Australia has done so the games actually look like a contest. And a lot of Indian players are exceptionally motivated as this is their last tour to Aus.

Plus Australia always tail off in dead matches. They did win when it counted.

How can the third match of a four match series possibly be dead?

 

[Debris]

India undoubtedly 'match up' against Australia better than any other team out there. They're clearly the number 2 team at the moment, but hell, if they win in Adelaide, and sustain their form for the next little while, I'd be prepared to concede that they're better than Australia at the moment. Whether they can a) do that, and b) sustain their current level for any length of time, are the two big questions.

South Africa might have something to say about who is number 2 in the world. A win for India for Adelaide would certainly set up the return series.

The big problem for most sides in the world is that they can't sustain a level of performance over a length of time. South Africa seem to be the only consistent side in world cricket other than Australia.

 

[Debris]

How can the third match of a four match series possibly be dead?

The trophy has already been retained.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The trophy has already been retained.

So what? It's only a dead rubber if the series has been decided.
Not forgetting that Australia were also attempting a world record number of wins. To suggest Australia were at less 100% is disrespectful to India's achievement.

 

[Debris]

So what? It's only a dead rubber if the series has been decided.
Not forgetting that Australia were also attempting a world record number of wins. To suggest Australia were at less 100% is disrespectful to India's achievement.

You only have to look at past Ashes series to know that retention of the trophy is what is important. Sides have given up any chance of winning a series just to retain the trophy.

I don't think it is disrespectful to India to suggest that Australia were not at their best. Just like I don't think it is any disrespect to Australia to say that India were not at their best in the first test match.

 

[Burgey]

The thing is, it's not just one Test match, it's the last two Test matches. And the first one, was a big loss for obvious reasons (lack of prep), which I won't get into once again. Face it, Australia just haven't looked very hot shot for most part against India.

To some extent I agree with you, but the fact remains India capitulated haplessly on day 5 in Sydney, a fact which was lost in the subsequent hulla-balloo. Dravid copped a shocker, but they lost 9 other wickets in 10 minutes more than 2 sessions.

We saw this triumphalism post-2005 Ashes, and frankly we see it whenever a side takes a test from Australia. Heck, we even saw it last year when they lost a few ODIs in the lead up to the WC. I gues we'll just have to wait and see what transpires. The thing I'm liking about the less experienced guys in the Aussie side is that by the end of next season, if they are still in the side, they'll have upwards of 20 tests, by which time we'll have a better idea at least as to how they're shaping up.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

You only have to look at past Ashes series to know that retention of the trophy is what is important. Sides have given up any chance of winning a series just to retain the trophy.

Let's see an example of an Ashes series where one team has given up any chance of winning the series in order to retain the trophy.

 

[Salamuddin]

South Africa might have something to say about who is number 2 in the world. A win for India for Adelaide would certainly set up the return series.

The big problem for most sides in the world is that they can't sustain a level of performance over a length of time. South Africa seem to be the only consistent side in world cricket other than Australia.

The big question mark over SA is whether they can actually compete well away from home.
I know they beat Pakistan in Pakistan but the latter were without Inzi and SHoaib and settling in under a new coach as well.
The rest of South Africa's recent wins have all come at home - but even there they have looked vulnerable at times.
THey probably should have dispposed of the West Indies 2-0 or 3-0 and they lost home tests to Pakistan and India last season.

I think SA's forthcoming series against India and England will give us a better idea of how good they really are.

 

[Protean]

The big question mark over SA is whether they can actually compete well away from home.
I know they beat Pakistan in Pakistan but the latter were without Inzi and SHoaib and settling in under a new coach as well.
The rest of South Africa's recent wins have all come at home - but even there they have looked vulnerable at times.
THey probably should have dispposed of the West Indies 2-0 or 3-0 and they lost home tests to Pakistan and India last season.

I think SA's forthcoming series against India and England will give us a better idea of how good they really are.

AWTA, really hoping they can pull it all together against top opposition.

 

[Richard]

Let's see an example of an Ashes series where one team has given up any chance of winning the series in order to retain the trophy.

It's almost universally held that the Fourth Test of the 1998\99 Ashes was a dead one ("England won 1 live Test in 14 years"), something I'd disagree with given that the series result had not yet been decided. The destination of The Ashes had been decided, but not the series.

 

[Richard]

I am so happy about RP... He hasn't been perfect with his line but still... Also, I was pleasantly surprised that during the Tea break interview on Star Cricket couple of days back, Benaud said that he was most impressed by RP among the Indian bowlers in England. It was interesting as it came from Benaud. Love RP so much.

Rudra Pratap has been something of a revelation in Tests the last year. Truly astonishing. I'd never thought of him as anything other than roundly poor, but he truly has played a considerable part in some notable seam-attack bowling from India in England and Australia.

 

[shankar]

Rudra Pratap has been something of a revelation in Tests the last year. Truly astonishing. I'd never thought of him as anything other than roundly poor, but he truly has played a considerable part in some notable seam-attack bowling from India in England and Australia.

Yeah, his turnaround's been stunning. I remember last year just being sick of the sight of him bowling. He'd just run in and mindlessly pitch it short ball after ball. I wonder how much Venkatesh Prasad has had to do with his evolution.

 

[shankar]

I am so happy about RP... He hasn't been perfect with his line but still...

Another problem he had was - he was setting up the batsmen well with the away going delivery (to left and right handers) but when bowling the one that holds its line or moves in he just pitched it a tad too full every time and was getting driven or flicked easily.

 

[gettingbetter]

The trophy has already been retained.

That really doesn't hold much water with me and I've never understood why 'retaining' a trophy has been held in such high regard. Big deal having a trophy in the cabinet. If India win in Adeliade, the series goes down as a draw in the books and thats all that really matters - well, it should.

Unfortunately, thats the way it is in all sports.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

That really doesn't hold much water with me and I've never understood why 'retaining' a trophy has been held in such high regard. Big deal having a trophy in the cabinet. If India win in Adeliade, the series goes down as a draw in the books and thats all that really matters - well, it should.

Unfortunately, thats the way it is in all sports.

The whole trophy thing in Test Cricket is utter tripe. For large parts of their history many series had no trophy at stake.