*Official* Australia in decline thread

[sirdj]

The point is the efficiency of the defeat. Were Aussies any time on top in the Finals? Please do not jumble qualifiers with finals. Finals are called Finals for one reason. Whatever you do in the preliminaries have no effect if you dont perfrom in the finals. I won't go to the extent of calling that "Choking". But it's somewhere near that.

The chap who started this thread said "hammered yesterday" which basically meant in the last match which is incorrect.........even you said that Australia did not look like winning the match anytime......which is incorrect..........till the fall of Hussey's wicket, Australia was certain to win the game as they just needed 80-90 in 75 odd balls which was very do-able. Even when they needed 13 off the last over it was also very do-able as Hopes had started hitting big.

So, even if we take your argument that only the final two matches count(which is pretty lame IMO) in one match India beat Aus by 5odd wickets and in the next one ran very close.

As regards Australia and choking...........you must be joking........besides the odd loss to England in the last tri series and the loss to the Kiwis(where they went with a depleted squad) Australia has won every tournament final in the last 2/3 years...........In fact its India who's history looks dodgy ever since winning the NatWest finals against England.......they have lost every final since........till this series against Australia.......but even then I would not call them(India) chokers.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Dunno why people are so hasty to put Hopes at the top. Why not Haddin? Used to regularly hit run-a-ball tons there for NSW.

Haddin opening is a poor idea, about 10 times better in the middle.

Anyway, I reckon Watto will open in the CT, whether he should or not I don't know, but I've got a feeling that if he keeps himself together until then he'll be straight in.

 

[Nate]

Hayden
Hopes
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Symonds
Haddin
Noffke
Lee
Heal
Bracken


as posted in the other thread.

 

[Richard]

Heal I'd expect, but any particular reason for Noffke? Not really done anything of great note in one-day cricket, this season or in his career.

 

[sideshowtim]

Heal I'd expect, but any particular reason for Noffke? Not really done anything of great note in one-day cricket, this season or in his career.

Very true. People seem to want him in the ODI side but forget that he's by far a better FC player than ODI player. The same reason why people aren't pushing for Hopesy in the Test side...He's just not as good in that format.

 

[Nate]

He wasn't amazing in 20/20s and yet succeeded in that format on the International stage. Thought he had a very good season tbh. Maintained a superb economy rate and was always building pressure at his end. Had to put up with his lacklusture Queensland team aswell. Some blokes just have it.

 

[Richard]

He wasn't amazing in 20/20s and yet succeeded in that format on the International stage.

Aside from the fact that Twenty20 is by nature a game that you can succeed or fail at on any given day, the fact that a very small number of unsuccessful domestic performers might be capable at international level does not mean you should jump in and select anyone. Almost all people who do not perform at the domestic level will not perform at the international.

Thought he had a very good season tbh.

At First-Class level, he had an outstanding season. At one-day level, he had a decidedly average one. Not shocking, certainly. But nowhere near good enough to scream "pick me for ODIs".

 

[Manee]

Perhaps no rebuilding is needed. Perhaps just a good team were beaten by two superb Tendulkar innings and some simultaneous bad form of batsmen.

 

[andruid]

Manraj, that you still hav that sig is starting to scare me really...

Anyway my token contribution is that this Australia team is gonna be 'in transition' for a looong time considering that the age of replacements like Hussey, and Clark means that byb the time we get used to seeing them as stalwarts in the team they will be retiring to be replaced by another set of players who have had to wait into their late twentioes and early 30s to get into the team.

 

[Richard]

And if they happen to have 4 or 5 years as good as Clark and Hussey have been so far... who's gonna be complaining?

 

[duffer]

I'm so not buying this Aussie "decline". A couple of tweaks here and there are probably needed but to blow it up and start over again? Heh.

 

[Flem274*]

The next five or so years will be an interesting transition period. They'll find it hard to make a team as great as the ones we've seen since 2000 but they should still have a bloody good one. It will also be interesting to see if the new blokes are as good as we hear. ITSTL on Hopes at 7/8 when I was under the impression he is an opener? A few players I'll go through below:

Hopes: Dunno why he's at eight, doesn't seem much of a bits and pieces player, though he probably would be in tests. Undecided on him

Noffke: Bowler that can bat a bit, his bowling reminds me a bit of a younger Jacob Oram for some reason, think he'll be good but not as amazing as some previous players of this era.

Jaques: Looks a good player but due to being unorthodox when he loses form he'll struggle more than others with his unorthodoxness. Awesome batsman though, not sure on his ODI capability.

Johnson: Looks promising but needs some more control and penetration. That will (hopefully for Australia) happen though.

Really this won't be an instant transition like other teams are having, this will be a slow and probably controlled one so they won't have to start at square one like other sides.

 

[Richard]

ITSTL on Hopes at 7/8 when I was under the impression he is an opener?

And due to the number of people who've advocated him as one so far this thread, it seems he might be.

Incidentally, I'd never heard anyone talk of it until now. Which is also ITSTL.

 

[Johnners]

Hayden
Hopes
Ponting
Clarke
Hussey
Symonds
Haddin
Noffke
Lee
Heal
Bracken


as posted in the other thread.

What exactly did Johnson do to deserve to be dropped...?

 

[Richard]

Wasn't Aaron Heal, isn't that enough?

 

[Nate]

What exactly did Johnson do to deserve to be dropped...?

Never thought he should be in there tbh. Way too patchy for mine.

EDIT: Has done well with his chances and that, but just don't think he merits first-team status. Defo next in line if someone was injured though.

 

[Nate]

Aside from the fact that Twenty20 is by nature a game that you can succeed or fail at on any given day, the fact that a very small number of unsuccessful domestic performers might be capable at international level does not mean you should jump in and select anyone. Almost all people who do not perform at the domestic level will not perform at the international.

At First-Class level, he had an outstanding season. At one-day level, he had a decidedly average one. Not shocking, certainly. But nowhere near good enough to scream "pick me for ODIs".

Once again, your problem is that you're getting your opinion from a glance of a Stats Page, whereas I have watched 6 of the 7 OD games Noffke has played in this season. And he bowled well. Way not to quote the relevant part of my post.

 

[honestbharani]

I guess Australia do need to rebuild, since they have lost Hogg and Gilchrist... But I don't think they are in any sort of decline or anything.

 

[NZTailender]

1. Watson
2. Katich
3. Ponting
4. Clarke
5. D. Hussey
6. Hussey
7. Haddin
8. Lee
9. Johnson
10. Bracken
11. Heal

IMHO.

 

[Richard]

Once again, your problem is that you're getting your opinion from a glance of a Stats Page, whereas I have watched 6 of the 7 OD games Noffke has played in this season. And he bowled well. Way not to quote the relevant part of my post.

You know my opinion on that: bowling well and turning-out poor figures is little use. There has never been a good player without good statistics. If Noffke bowls well and is expensive without taking wickets in his ODI career, no-one will be very happy.