• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

**Official** England in New Zealand

Days of Grace

International Captain
I wouldn't mind Vincent getting another crack at opening. If you look at his record, it is pretty good (35 career average) relatively speaking. I mean, he pushes the score along at the top. Much like Sehwag i.m.o. Cumming just looks out of his depth and has a HUGE problem with playing around his pads.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I wouldn't mind Vincent getting another crack at opening. If you look at his record, it is pretty good (35 career average) relatively speaking. I mean, he pushes the score along at the top. Much like Sehwag i.m.o. Cumming just looks out of his depth and has a HUGE problem with playing around his pads.
Something else that occurred to me a few weeks ago - where on Earth has Matthew Bell been? Not had a look at his recent seasons' record (or even if he's actually been playing) but his career record remains impressive yet I've been told (and had no reason at all to doubt) of late that Cumming and Papps are clearly the best openers in New Zealand.

:huh:
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
martin is gonna have his ass handed to him on a plate by the england batsmen. i fully expect even monty to hit a few sixes in our 3-0 test sereies win. NZ have no chance in hell since bond went.
Suppose you're the type to drive around with the flag of St George on your car aerial.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Papps has been the best opener in NZ domestic cricket for a couple of seasons now. But, as we have seen, it doesn't translate to international cricket (acutally feel sorry for the poor bloke, would have been interested what he would have done against Bangladesh as opposed to Steyn and Ntini).

Cumming has been just average, even in dometic cricket. But the selectors must like his fortitude or something, because he hasn't got the first-class record to back-up his selection.

Bell has been solid in domestic cricket for a few years now. Not outstanding, but consistent.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Is this a forum of private conversations? No. I couldn't give a damn who you were talking to (or at, or about). Your suggestion was inaccurate, so I said it was inaccurate.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Something else that occurred to me a few weeks ago - where on Earth has Matthew Bell been? Not had a look at his recent seasons' record (or even if he's actually been playing) but his career record remains impressive yet I've been told (and had no reason at all to doubt) of late that Cumming and Papps are clearly the best openers in New Zealand.

:huh:
Before his comeback his test average was 22. He was discarded after poor form in Australia in 2001 and since then worked to remodel his technique to try and get back into the Black Caps. Before he got recalled, Papps had a stellar season and was called up due to that (albeit a season too late) while How and Cumming were also tried. Now that it appears Papps simply isn't 'good enough' Bell was recalled due to his exceedingly good form in 2007.


Interesting to note, however, that Vincent with an average of 30 opening has been our best at the top of the order since Richardson - and yet isn't a specialist opener.

Though I believe Cumming and Bell are better than what their averages are and should be able to push them above 30...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I wouldn't mind Vincent getting another crack at opening. If you look at his record, it is pretty good (35 career average) relatively speaking. I mean, he pushes the score along at the top. Much like Sehwag i.m.o.
Interesting to note, however, that Vincent with an average of 30 opening has been our best at the top of the order since Richardson - and yet isn't a specialist opener.
Hmm, not sure about that TBH, Vincent averages just 22 from his second shot at opening onwards (ie, excluding that remarkable debut game at The WACA), passing 50 just 3 times. Since Richardson's retirement he's only opened once, too, and that in a makeshift role, scoring 4.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
No, no, sorry, was meaning his domestic record. :)
Indeed - he averages 45 at Wellington, and in 2006/07 he averaged 54 - which was overshadowed by Papps 1005 @ 91.

Amazingly though, Cumming has done anything of note in a while.
While Jamie How has been solid.


From that you would gather that Papps and Bell should be opening. Yet Papps was decimated by the South Africans (a team he hasn't had any success against) so you wonder if he really is test class? After all he's played 7 of his 8 tests against the South Africans so perhaps they're his bogey team. In his solitary test against England he scored 86 & 0 (the 0 being 9 :blink: )

I think Cumming should be given the England tests to prove himself. If he fails, then I think he should be finally discarded.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Hmm, not sure about that TBH, Vincent averages just 22 from his second shot at opening onwards (ie, excluding that remarkable debut game at The WACA), passing 50 just 3 times. Since Richardson's retirement he's only opened once, too, and that in a makeshift role, scoring 4.
Haha, excluding Zimbabwe. Of course :sleep:
 

Top