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**Official** England in New Zealand

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Reckon 4-1 or 3-1 to NZ in the ODI's.

A repeat of last series in NZ with a 1-1 test scoreline. England's top six is stronger than the Kiwi's (If Prior were still there England would have a top seven all averaging over 40, interesting to know when that has happened before), saw some of the Bangladesh series and though there were some dodgy decisions, i thought Cumming and Sinclair looked particularly vulnerable, Fleming and Oram the two to worry about in the top six imo. Cook, Vaughan and Bell to be England's best - KP to turn it on in one knock or two. Strauss to be average and Collingwood to struggle. England's lower order is dire in comparison. I expect the lower order runs from Mcullum, Vettori and Mills/Franklin to be crucial in at least one test.

The bowling attacks are probably well matched, expect both Hoggard and Martin to be successful and Sidebottom and Franklin(if he plays) to do ok. Neither spinner to particularly prosper but Vettori to do better than Panesar and do well against the tail if needed.

Depending on the weather one team might sneak it either way but i think 1-1 is the safer bet.

Combined NZ/England test side

Cook
Vaughan
Fleming
Pietersen
Bell
Oram
Mcullum
Vettori
Sidebottom/Franklin
Hoggard
Martin

Interesting to see the call ups to the Lions squad for injuries, can't ever imagine Shreck and Kirby making the England side let alone being successful. The pace attack from Shreck, Kirby, Onions, Richardson and Plunkett isn't going to frighten any of the Indian sides. The batting looks a bit better but can't help but feel Yardy should be cut adrift.
 

Evermind

International Debutant
Whoopee, a stern warning from Chris Martin! I believe England should retaliate by having James Anderson respond in kind.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Reckon 4-1 or 3-1 to NZ in the ODI's.

A repeat of last series in NZ with a 1-1 test scoreline. England's top six is stronger than the Kiwi's (If Prior were still there England would have a top seven all averaging over 40, interesting to know when that has happened before), saw some of the Bangladesh series and though there were some dodgy decisions, i thought Cumming and Sinclair looked particularly vulnerable, Fleming and Oram the two to worry about in the top six imo. Cook, Vaughan and Bell to be England's best - KP to turn it on in one knock or two. Strauss to be average and Collingwood to struggle. England's lower order is dire in comparison. I expect the lower order runs from Mcullum, Vettori and Mills/Franklin to be crucial in at least one test.

The bowling attacks are probably well matched, expect both Hoggard and Martin to be successful and Sidebottom and Franklin(if he plays) to do ok. Neither spinner to particularly prosper but Vettori to do better than Panesar and do well against the tail if needed.

Depending on the weather one team might sneak it either way but i think 1-1 is the safer bet.

Combined NZ/England test side

Cook
Vaughan
Fleming
Pietersen
Bell
Oram
Mcullum
Vettori
Sidebottom/Franklin
Hoggard
Martin
Either way, I hope England go in with:
Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
Collingwood
Pietersen
Bell
Ambrose
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson \ MSP (if it's really obviously a turner - if it's green they've got to have the guts to pick an all-seam attack for mine)
Interesting to see the call ups to the Lions squad for injuries, can't ever imagine Shreck and Kirby making the England side let alone being successful. The pace attack from Shreck, Kirby, Onions, Richardson and Plunkett isn't going to frighten any of the Indian sides. The batting looks a bit better but can't help but feel Yardy should be cut adrift.
Pretty much agree with all of that.

Interesting to see dav back in CC again after... how long?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm not hopeful, to be honest. For those pointing to Englands loss in Sri Lanka...yeah, sure, but those are way different conditions. The English seamers are going to be right at home in New Zealand, they'll love it. England's top order>ours (though our lower order>theirs, but it doesn't count for much unless your top order scores runs) and England's bowling attack>our bowling attack we last fielded vs Bangladesh. We desperately need James Franklin back and Chris Martin firing against a team he averages 49 at home and 51 overall. The third seamer will be either Mills, Mason or O'Brien and I'm hoping it's Mills for our sakes (this is assuming Bond is unavailable because of the ICL hoopla) as I think he can trouble them where Mason will probably contain and take no wickets and O'Diren will just ****ing suck.

Our top order will be under immense pressure - the openers doubly so. But the man I'd like to see stand up is Mathew Sinclair. If we're any chance of winning, I think this will be our key man batting at 5 to do so. A century from him and we'll definitely be in with a chance.
So what we hoping for?

Cumming
Bell
Fleming
Fulton
Sinclair
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Gillespie
Martin

I presume?

Anyone tell me why O'Brien was picked for Bangladesh ahead of Gillespie? I seriously hope Gillespie's injured.
 

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
Fairly surprised at what I consider to be some pretty charitable appraisals of NZ's chances in the test series. I think we'll struggle tbh.

The ODIs will also be pretty one-sided, although we'll win that imo.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Either way, I hope England go in with:
Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
Collingwood
Pietersen
Bell
Ambrose
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson \ MSP (if it's really obviously a turner - if it's green they've got to have the guts to pick an all-seam attack for mine)
There probably isn't too much doubt over the likely starting XI. But I think that Bell's position in the order needs sorting out, and I don't think it's as simple as looking where his average is highest. If he's going to really settle in test cricket, we can't keep switching him from 3 to 6 depending on whether enough of our openers are fit & in some sort of form.
In the likely lineup for this tour I'd play him at 4. Obviously his average there is dire, but we all know why that was. You could actually argue that his most impressive test innings have been at number 3, even if he's not quite gone on with it in that position, so it's not as if he's unable to bat higher than 6. And I think he'd benefit from the responsibility. I certainly wouldn't have Collingwood in the top 4.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The only thing about that line-up interchangeable is Pietersen would probably be more likely to bat four than five (ie, swap with Collingwood).

Really, honestly, I'm very happy indeed with Bell at six. It's annoying that he's ever batted anywhere but since the summer of '06, both times because an opener's been ill \ dropped.

I remember very well the summer of 2001, when Bell scored coolly, calmly, seemingly effortlessly batting at five or six for Warkwickshire, with three of Wagh, Ostler, Penney and Hemp in ahead of him (Powell and Knight opening). Why on Earth they insisted on promoting him to three the next 2 seasons (resulting in averages of 24 in 2002 and 30 in 2003) was completely beyond me. Technically, he's good, but for whatever reasons, he's much, much more accomplished against an older ball.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
So what we hoping for?

Cumming
Bell
Fleming
Fulton
Sinclair
Oram
McCullum
Vettori
Mills
Gillespie
Martin

I presume?

Anyone tell me why O'Brien was picked for Bangladesh ahead of Gillespie? I seriously hope Gillespie's injured.
Gillespie had a shoulder injury and O'Brien was picked ahead of Mason which was utter lunacy.

I hope that's the side that plays, given our injuries (Franklin won't be back until NZ tours England). and other problems...
 

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