Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[Burgey]

Back from holidays and cbf going through all the posts, but has anyone in this thread posted a link to that clip from England where Pietersen bowls HB Singh who stands there for ages, or that one where Dhoni claimed that catch off KP when it bounced a metre in front of him?

Of all the things to come out of Sydney, the "not playing in the spirit of cricket" comment was the one which really made me sit up and take notice, becaue it can mean differnet things to different people, as much as "monkey" or "bastard" can. Issues like that also get amplified when the umpiring is bad like it was in Sydney.

We've had guys like Hasha on the ABC saying that appealing for things like Dravid's dismissal is against the spirit of the game because Gilchrist "must have known he wasn't out", so it makes no difference whether he walks or not.

Well, I understand he was probably upset, but please, if that's used as an example as to what's not in the spirit of the game, then I commend Ponting's first innings dismissal to him and other commentators, together with all those bat-pad dismissals over the years when teams have gone up when the ball has missed the bat and gloves by about 10 inches. And here's the thing - every team does it. Doesn't mean it's morally right, but it's been an accepted part of the game for as long as I can remember, and I go back as far as the 70s.

Likewise, Australia's behaviour at the end of the match was, I agree boorish, but no more so than the attempted somersault's of Harbhajan's when he got Ponting out int he 2nd innings.

I like the way a lot of people (rightly) have contrasted the behaviour of the Aussies at the end of the match with that of Flintoff post-2nd test in 2005 when he went over and shook Lee's hand. I wish one of the Aussies had done the same thing to Kumble, which would have gotten the other 10 off the hook, just as Freddie's handshake did with the Poms in 2005. It shows how one small gesture can make such a difference - one bloke out of 11 goes over the shake hands, as opposed to no one, and look at the differing reactions to the two outcomes.

I haven't seen footage after the Aussies were in their huddles, but I assume they shook Kumble's hand before they left he field. Can anyone confirm that for me?

 

[Richard]

Back from holidays and cbf going through all the posts, but has anyone in this thread posted a link to that clip from England where Pietersen bowls HB Singh who stands there for ages, or that one where Dhoni claimed that catch off KP when it bounced a metre in front of him?

Which one was that? The one where he was out the next ball (or possibly next but one...?)? That was certainly far from blatant. No-one was any the wiser until the big-screen replay.

 

[Burgey]

The one where it bounced so far in front of him that he caught it between the wrist portion of his gloves.

Happy New Year btw.

 

[silentstriker]

The one where it bounced so far in front of him that he caught it between the wrist portion of his gloves.

Happy New Year btw.

Yea, that was dire and I called him a cheat too. Pieterson was called back.

 

[Burgey]

Thinking further about it, me saying that everyone appeals for things which they know aren't out means that someone has to have the stones to stop doing it. It's really not good enough to just say "oh well, everyone else does it so we will too".

Then again, that's what umpires are for - to adjudicate on appeals.
Edit: the Dhoni one is the first in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNCdD7KC9eI

 

[howardj]

I can proudly say, in relation to my own cricket, that about three years ago I stopped going up for things that I know are not out. It is not right, and I regard it as cheating.

 

[Jono]

See Symonds in the paper yesterday effectively saying that he doesn't mind being on the end of racist remarks if they're from his friends, but apparently Harbijhan's comment was 'socially offensive', he said.

I'll say it again that this whole thing was only reported because Harbijhan got under the skin of Ricky Ponting by people labelling him as his bunny before the Test match, and Ponting's dismissal off an inside edge onto the pad in the first innings.

I think it has little to do with Symonds feeling deeply offended.

Agreed, I reckon Symonds doesn't give a ****.

That doesn't justify racism, and if Harbhajan said what he said, then I think he's an idiot (well I already thought that in the first place anyway, and have for a long time) but the reporting of it is definitely because of who it was, rather than what was said.

I reckon if Jaffer said it, none of this complaining would have happened.

 

[Top_Cat]

The first two vids are fair enough but I don't blame Ganguly for going up in the third one. From his perspective at full speed, the way Gilchrist's bat turned in his hands would have made him think it was an edge. As it was, when he realised what happened, he backed off straight away. I've no problem with that one. The other two, especially the incredulous reaction of the fielders in the Pietersen one wasn't much of a credit to the team.

 

[Burgey]

The first two vids are fair enough but I don't blame Ganguly for going up in the third one. From his perspective at full speed, the way Gilchrist's bat turned in his hands would have made him think it was an edge. As it was, when he realised what happened, he backed off straight away. I've no problem with that one. The other two, especially the incredulous reaction of the fielders in the Pietersen one wasn't much of a credit to the team.

And I think Gilly, after the crowd went up after the replay, said to Sourav something like "It's an easy game with the replay, isn't it?"

 

[Evermind]

Incidentally, there was an article in the Sunday Star Times here in New Zealand, quoting Fraser Stewart of the MCC Law Department at Lords who stated that the Ponting catch (and the Harris catch in SA) were unequivocally not out (he did not see the Clarke catch). However, this does not mean that the players themselves may not have thought it was not out, depending on the catch taken - as least not arguably Ponting, but Harris and Sinclair against Bangladesh would certainly have known and I think Clarke too. But if so, it certainly does call into question the adage that the fielder "always" knows and agreements of the kind Ponting has been trying to engineer are therefore rendered null and void.

There is no way Ponting grounded that ball. If Stewart of MCG or whatever is questioning Ponting's integrity, maybe he shouldn't be working in the law department.

 

[Burgey]

Incidentally, there was an article in the Sunday Star Times here in New Zealand, quoting Fraser Stewart of the MCC Law Department at Lords who stated that the Ponting catch (and the Harris catch in SA) were unequivocally not out (he did not see the Clarke catch). However, this does not mean that the players themselves may not have thought it was not out, depending on the catch taken - as least not arguably Ponting, but Harris and Sinclair against Bangladesh would certainly have known and I think Clarke too. But if so, it certainly does call into question the adage that the fielder "always" knows and agreements of the kind Ponting has been trying to engineer are therefore rendered null and void.

JBH - are you referring to the Clarke catch off Ganguly, because I still haven't seen video one way or another which shows it bounced before he caught it. If there's such a video, can someone post a link to it?
From what I've seen it seemed to be inconclusive at worst, and he's still adamant that he caught it.

 

[Pratters]

One of many reports

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23029955-2722,00.html

Harby is far from an innocent here

There is no proof that Harbhajan racially abused Symonds in India yet AFAIK.

That you say Harbhajan Singh is far from innocent means that you have made a judgement on the matter. As I said earlier, I am not going to do the same as it is very much words of one set versus the words of another set of people till now. I don't know whether he is innocent or not and wont bash him without being sure on it.

 

[jeevan]

I am still trying to get all the facts in the Harbhajan allegation. Apparently Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds, Lee, Hayden and Clarke were present at the Proctor-refereed hearing. Of these Ponting, Gilchrist and Lee have said that they didnt hear it I think.

Do we know if Michael Clarke or Hayden have said they personally heard the alleged abuse? Links appreciated.

 

[JBH001]

There is no way Ponting grounded that ball. If Stewart of MCG or whatever is questioning Ponting's integrity, maybe he shouldn't be working in the law department.

I personally have not seen Pontings catch, so its difficult for me to comment with regards to that. And I dont think Stewart of the MCC did comment against Pontings integrity, he merely said that the catch Ponting took was not a catch (same as the Harris one in the first test against WI) - even though, as I said, Ponting may have thought it was a catch.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4354466a2201.html

 

[JBH001]

JBH - are you referring to the Clarke catch off Ganguly, because I still haven't seen video one way or another which shows it bounced before he caught it. If there's such a video, can someone post a link to it?
From what I've seen it seemed to be inconclusive at worst, and he's still adamant that he caught it.

Have not seen any video, but did see it during the days play.

For my money it was not out, and Clarke transgressed in the actual taking of the catch, in the completion of the catch, and then in claiming it. Dont trust Clarke anymore, and he is building up a shoddy little record all his own.

 

[Anil]

Mate I just watched it again, and I still can't see anything that would make me doubt the word of Clarke

good for you then, is all i can say..., there is no doubt whatsoever that he did, though...

 

[Anil]

Have not seen any video, but did see it during the days play.

For my money it was not out, and Clarke transgressed in the actual taking of the catch, in the completion of the catch, and then in claiming it. Dont trust Clarke anymore, and he is building up a shoddy little record all his own.

even if he did take it cleanly, he grounded it during the completion and then claimed it...

 

[Majin]

Ponting's was a marginal call, could have gone either way really but the fact is the umpire should never have taken his word for it, it should have been referred. Bad umpiring, Ponting is not at fault.

Clarke's was grounded imho and he shouldn't have claimed it but he did and it was given, there's not much that can be done about it.

 

[Burgey]

Of course, who of us knows if Harb said it, but it certainly appears from looking at the video that Symonds believed he said it.
Have a look at Symonds' reaction and you can see when his head turns around he appears to mouth the words "So I'm a monkey now am I?" or some words which marry up closely with that phrase.
Just wish it would end tbh.

 

[Son Of Coco]

even if he did take it cleanly, he grounded it during the completion and then claimed it...

I haven't seen the passage in the rule book where it states if you put your hand on the ground with the ball in it (and the ball's touching the ground) it's not out, but I'd imagine some level of common sense would have to apply. How long do you have to hang on to the ball for it to be deemed a catch? If a player takes it in mid-air, then hits the ground without touching it with the ball, and proceeds to push himself up with the ball in his hand is this then not out?