Harbhajan reignites racism storm

[RhyZa]

The things I have against it are:

1. It ignores the fact that Symonds went down the route of seeking an apology from Harby in Mumbai and it basically amounted to zero in Sydney so a more formal complaint was justified

2. Ponting is obviously backing his player in the same way as Kumble is

3. It implies that Ponting broke their agreement by claiming a catch that wasnt - this pointedly ignores all video evidence to the contrary and implies that the opposing captain is a cheat

4. It claims that the Australians appealed when they knew something wasnt out thereby contravening the spirit of the game again - what is the guy a mind reader?

Little wonder the mindless patriots are up in arms when such a one-sided hatchet job is published under the name of the Indian captain

1. How do you know it amounted to 0 in Sydney? You're assuming he's guilty here.

3/4. If it walks like a duck... don't ask Kumble or Indians, read some of the responses from all others and almost would agree that any such agreement was compromised by how strongly appeals were made when at best they weren't sure, and worst they intended to deceive. You are no less certain that the latter wasn't the case, than anyone else might be that it was. This combined with the intept umpiring has caused Kumble to reconsider his position.

 

[social]

1. How do you know it amounted to 0 in Sydney? You're assuming he's guilty here.

3/4. If it walks like a duck... don't ask Kumble or Indians, read some of the responses from all others and almost would agree that any such agreement was compromised by how strongly appeals were made when at best they weren't sure, and worst they intended to deceive. You are no less certain that the latter wasn't the case, than anyone else might be that it was. This combined with the intept umpiring has caused Kumble to reconsider his position.

Kumble (one of the most frequent appealers in world cricket) has reconsidered his position and spent the past week spouting accusations in an attempt to paint the Indian team as martyrs.

Fact 1: Harby has prior form

Fact 2: Ganguly was out and no view from any camera has suggested otherwise

He's failed to mention either

Whether this has been an elaborate scheme to deflect attention from the fact that his team collapsed again under pressure and now cannot win the series, only he can say.

 

[Pratters]

The things I have against it are:

1. It ignores the fact that Symonds went down the route of seeking an apology from Harby in Mumbai and it basically amounted to zero in Sydney so a more formal complaint was justified

2. Ponting is obviously backing his player in the same way as Kumble is

3. It implies that Ponting broke their agreement by claiming a catch that wasnt - this pointedly ignores all video evidence to the contrary and implies that the opposing captain is a cheat

4. It claims that the Australians appealed when they knew something wasnt out thereby contravening the spirit of the game again - what is the guy a mind reader?

Little wonder the mindless patriots are up in arms when such a one-sided hatchet job is published under the name of the Indian captain

So it is okay when Australians do hatchet jobs but it is not okay for Indians to do it. Heh. (A piece of criticism that destroys someone's reputation is a hatchet job) You assume that Harbhajan did go the racist route in point 1. It is very much disputable whether he did or didn't based on whose version you believe. I try not to be biased and wont believe any of the two versions and wont pronounce Harbhajan Singh guilty without proof.

About point 2, this is about Kumble's side of the story, not about Ponting's. Ponting has every right to back his player.

You cry about Kumble pointing regarding the catches with points 3 and 4. There was reasonable doubt regarding the Clarke catch. Also, the Ponting catch was very much a drop. Given the number of times the Australians were appealing for almost any thing during the period of play, if a person thinks that they were claiming catches they knew touched the ground or saying that they were 100% sure regarding catches when they weren't and they broke the code, it wouldn't be very unreasonable. Ponting didn't help matters by not talking to Kumble even when Kumble tried to. You wont make the situation any better sitting in the cushion (and I use it metamorphically) of Channel 9 studios and giving interviews when you should try and get things right particularly when the opposing captain is willing to do the same.

 

[social]

So it is okay when Australians do hatchet jobs but it is not okay for Indians to do it. Heh. (A piece of criticism that destroys someone's reputation is a hatchet job) You assume that Harbhajan did go the racist route in point 1. It is very much disputable whether he did or didn't based on whose version you believe. I try not to be biased and wont believe any of the two versions and wont pronounce Harbhajan Singh guilty without proof.

About point 2, this is about Kumble's side of the story, not about Ponting's. Ponting has every right to back his player.

You cry about Kumble pointing regarding the catches with points 3 and 4. There was reasonable doubt regarding the Clarke catch. Also, the Ponting catch was very much a drop. Given the number of times the Australians were appealing for almost any thing during the period of play, if a person thinks that they were claiming catches they knew touched the ground or saying that they were 100% sure regarding catches when they weren't and they broke the code, it wouldn't be very unreasonable. Ponting didn't help matters by not talking to Kumble even when Kumble tried to. You wont make the situation any better sitting in the cushion (and I use it metamorphically) of Channel 9 studios and giving interviews when you should try and get things right particularly when the opposing captain is willing to do the same.

Ponting acted on a complaint and went the official route - nothing more or less

Did he personally accuse Harby of making the comment? - no

Did he give evidence against Harby? - no

Have the Australians faced a similar situation before? - yes

Did they try to resolve it amicably? - yes

Did it work? - no

In relation to the catches, no Australian is crying because the evidence is there for all to see.

IMO, this entire situation has come about because the Indians were tired and emotional after losing a test they never should have.

Finally, why would Ponting talk to Kumble?

The latter has accused the former of not playing in a good spirit (and worse, if were being totally honest) and has played the whole thing out in front of the media

The latter has made his bed and now he has to get up and face Australia at the WACA.

Enjoy!

 

[Pratters]

Ponting acted on a complaint and went the official route - nothing more or less

Did he personally accuse Harby of making the comment?


Did he give evidence against Harby? - no

Err, I know that.

Irrelevent and don't know why you mention it.

Have the Australians faced a similar situation before? - yes

How do you know. Are you God?

In relation to the catches, no Australian is crying because the evidence is there for all to see.

Haha. So you think the Ponting catch which he claimed during the game, regardless of whether he believed he took it cleanly or not, was legitimate?

IMO, this entire situation has come about because the Indians were tired and emotional after losing a test they never should have.

Yes, yes, That is why there has been so much rage in Australia over the issue. It is all because the Indians are sore losers and all.

Finally, why would Ponting talk to Kumble?

The latter has accused the former of not playing in a good spirit and worse[

The latter has made his bed and now he has to get up and face Australia at the WACA.

Yes, as I said, remain in your cushion of channel nine interviews and let misunderstandings from both sides (if they both honestly believe they are both right, there have to be some), blow out of proportion because I believe I am right while the other side is full of sins. Remain in your egoistical high horse and don't talk with the other team.

 

[social]

Err, I know that.

Irrelevent and don't know why you mention it.



How do you know. Are you God?



Haha. So you think the Ponting catch which he claimed during the game, regardless of whether he believed he took it cleanly or not, was legitimate?



Yes, yes, That is why there has been so much rage in Australia over the issue. It is all because the Indians are sore losers and all.



Yes, as I said, remain in your cushion of channel nine interviews and let misunderstandings from both sides (if they both honestly believe they are both right, there have to be some), blow out of proportion because I believe I am right while the other side is full of sins. Remain in your egoistical high horse.

Am I God? No but the entire world, bar Indian fans, knows Harby was accused of exactly the same thing at Mumbai during the recent ODI series and the issue was resolved following an apology to Symonds

Ponting's catch - get real! Only thing dodgy was the decision of not out which was refuted by replays showing it touched the glove

Channel 9????? Sorry but I live in the Middle East and get an Indian feed

Finally, as if both sides are right but at least we allow the officials to make the decisions and dont resort to blackmail (both political and emotional) when things dont go our way.

Kumble is simply coming across as a prize whinger and people, in this part of the world at least (UAE has a large population from the subcontinent), are laughing at the Indian team because of it

 

[Pratters]

Am I God? No but the entire world, bar Indian fans, knows Harby was accused of exactly the same thing at Mumbai during the recent ODI series and the issue was resolved following an apology to Symonds

Not really. Give me some proof.

Ponting's catch - get real! Only thing dodgy was the decision of not out which was refuted by replays showing it touched the glove

Channel 9????? Sorry but I live in the Middle East and get an Indian feed

I was referring to Ponting, not you. Where you live is irrelevent.

Finally, as if both sides are right but at least we allow the officials to make the decisions and dont resort to blackmail (both political and emotional) when things dont go our way.

I would like to see the Australians or any team react in a saner way if a player from their team is accused of racist behaviour and they believe that

1. he is innocent and the officials (Procter in this case) haven't meted out justice properly,

2. the other team has broken the code and whatever happened in Sydney.

 

[jeevan]

Finally, why would Ponting talk to Kumble?

The latter has accused the former of not playing in a good spirit (and worse, if were being totally honest) and has played the whole thing out in front of the media

The latter has made his bed and now he has to get up and face Australia at the WACA.

Enjoy!

Nice try at obfuscating the issue. Kumble wanted to talk to Ponting and resolve the racism allegation at the end of day 3. Kumble accused Ponting of not playing the game in the right spirit at the end of day 5, based on happenings of days 3 and 5.

 

[jeevan]

Kumble (one of the most frequent appealers in world cricket) has reconsidered his position and spent the past week spouting accusations in an attempt to paint the Indian team as martyrs.

.

Kumble may be a loud appealer but he's not an open hypocrite. Like Ponting.

Champion trust-the-fielder-word, get a sucker captain to an agreement. Then go on and try to claim false catches any way. See above photograph.

Kumble has never epoused the cause of non-appealing to my knowledge. Open to correction if he's gone on to make even 2 statements about how bowlers should appeal less etc.

 

[Debris]

Kumble may be a loud appealer but he's not an open hypocrite. Like Ponting.

Champion trust-the-fielder-word, get a sucker captain to an agreement. Then go on and try to claim false catches any way. See above photograph.

Kumble has never epoused the cause of non-appealing to my knowledge. Open to correction if he's gone on to make even 2 statements about how bowlers should appeal less etc.

I have to agree that the ball from Ponting did touch the ground. However, this does not mean that he knew it did or he may not have know that this meant that it was not out.

Interestingly, the same thing happened in the second test match between West Indies and South Africa and the batsman was given out. A West Indian batsman was caught at extra cover with a diving catch and the player grounded the ball. Batsman was given out. Edwards in the second innings.

This was one decision that the umpire got right, at least.

 

[jeevan]

Pause and click frame by frame at 1:04 to 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBOPaWevAI

Does not a cleanly taken catch either, by Michael Clarke.
And unfortunately for India, this one was not decided correctly
by the umpires (not only was the decision questionable, even the
method of arriving at it by consultation with Ponting is hugely questionable).

This, Ponting, is the guy who due to his position as captain of Australia - gets
to influence events in this sport.

 

[JBH001]

Some interesting reads on the issue from the pages of the NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=29&objectid=10486343

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=29&objectid=10486397

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=29&objectid=10486399

Wrt that piece by Kumble. Whatever his own thoughts on the matter, I dont think he should have written or released them to the press. Bad form, imo.

 

[social]

Not really. Give me some proof.

I was referring to Ponting, not you. Where you live is irrelevent.



I would like to see the Australians or any team react in a saner way if a player from their team is accused of racist behaviour and they believe that

1. he is innocent and the officials (Procter in this case) haven't meted out justice properly,

2. the other team has broken the code and whatever happened in Sydney.

Seriously, just what does that photo prove?

There are others on cricinfo showing him catch the ball 2 feet off the ground


As for the rest, it's largely been a case of India losing the plot

 

[social]

Pause and click frame by frame at 1:04 to 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBOPaWevAI

Does not a cleanly taken catch either, by Michael Clarke.
And unfortunately for India, this one was not decided correctly
by the umpires (not only was the decision questionable, even the
method of arriving at it by consultation with Ponting is hugely questionable).

This, Ponting, is the guy who due to his position as captain of Australia - gets
to influence events in this sport.

Again, that proves nothing other than the fact that the Australians were far better positioned than anyone to tell whether the catch was taken

 

[Debris]

Pause and click frame by frame at 1:04 to 1:06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vBOPaWevAI

Does not a cleanly taken catch either, by Michael Clarke.
And unfortunately for India, this one was not decided correctly
by the umpires (not only was the decision questionable, even the
method of arriving at it by consultation with Ponting is hugely questionable).

This, Ponting, is the guy who due to his position as captain of Australia - gets
to influence events in this sport.

The ICC decided to stop using cameras to decide catchs because they can be deceptive. I certainly can't tell from that if it was caught or not. I think you are seeing what you want to see.

After saying that, Ponting should not have got involved. It should have been left to the umpires. The idea of taking the fielders word on a catch just seems to be something that Ponting cannot get over.

 

[Pratters]

Seriously, just what does that photo prove?

There are others on cricinfo showing him catch the ball 2 feet off the ground

Err Ponting catch attempt was clearly a drop. Watch the replay if you haven't. That is why the umpires gave it not out.

As for the rest, it's largely been a case of India losing the plot

I repeat, are so many people in Australia not happy with the Australian team a case of losing the plot as well. Heh.

You haven't given me proof of Harbhajan being racist against Symonds in India either, some thing you claim the whole world knows. So maybe I can assume that you are indeed God.

 

[social]

You haven't given me proof of Harbhajan being racist against Symonds in India either, some thing you claim the whole world knows. So maybe I can assume that you are indeed God.

One of many reports

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23029955-2722,00.html

Harby is far from an innocent here

 

[jeevan]

One of many reports

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23029955-2722,00.html

Harby is far from an innocent here

Link does not appear to work. But if it is this article:

http://cracker.com.au/viewthread.aspx?threadid=216111&categoryid=11161

Explains why Kumble needed to go public with his side of the story. The blog quotes an article that starts with Kumble apparently making a plea to downgrade the allegation. What de did was not this, and if someone in the press says so, then he needs to mention that he did nothing that should be construed as a statement of Harbhajan's guilt.

 

[Jono]

Kumble (one of the most frequent appealers in world cricket) has reconsidered his position and spent the past week spouting accusations in an attempt to paint the Indian team as martyrs.

Fact 1: Harby has prior form

Fact 2: Ganguly was out and no view from any camera has suggested otherwise

He's failed to mention either

Whether this has been an elaborate scheme to deflect attention from the fact that his team collapsed again under pressure and now cannot win the series, only he can say.

If Clarke catches a ball 2 inches from the ground, I'll still always be suspicious after this pathetic claimed catch.

Pretty pathetic.

 

[BoyBrumby]

If Clarke catches a ball 2 inches from the ground, I'll still always be suspicious after this pathetic claimed catch.

Pretty pathetic.

First time I've seen that. Doesn't look too flash, does it?

Might be getting a bit of a reputation for it if he's not careful.