***Official*** India in Australia

[tooextracool]

I agree with you that the Symonds decision may have swung the course of the game.

I also have been an advocate of the appeals system of referals to the third umpire (eg 3 appeals per match which a team can make, successful appeals don't count).

I am a strong believer of the 3 referals as well. I am also a big fan of Hawkeye. I think its right 99% of the time which is far far better than the current system.

However, according to the current rules of the game this cannot happen. So the players need to accept it and move on. You cannot live in the past and say "but if" about every single bad decision. The point I made was that India, while POTENTIALLY losing the ability to win the match, were given AMPLE OPPORTUNITY for a draw, which is not an unacceptable conclusion to a match. They were simply not good enough to do that (as evidenced by the second innings scores).

Not sure about that. As i said earlier, over 250 runs were credited to Australias account from bad decisions while many were lost from Indias account. They already had the bad luck of losing the toss and their best fast bowler on the morning of the test. I do not agree that they were not good enough to save the game. They were merely denied the opportunity to do so.

 

[shortpitched713]

I repeat, if you continue to make accusations about the neutrality of umpires, expect a ban.

Accusing them of racism is one thing. But bans for accusations of bias?

You'd have to ban half the forum then.

 

[duffer]

It's pretty silly to accuse the umpires of bias, but perfectly fair to call them for incompetence.

Yep, I believe most of the claims of bias were tongue in cheek and the Symonds-Stevie pat on the back posts were more symbolic rather than an insinuation of something more sinister.

 

[Slow Love™]

If Ponting and Symonds came up to you and asked you to testify against someone that you genuinely disliked, would you do it?
Whilst i know it is necessary to maintain a goody good reputation on this forum, I am certain many people on this forum would do it. In this case, Harbhajan's past comments, his alleged racist taunt from the ODI series in India, might have added to it. Most people in this world dont have problems screwing people they believe are assholes.

The first refuge of those with poor standards is always to claim that anybody that claims a different (or in this case, better) standard is simply being dishonest with themselves. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before.

I do care what people think of me, and fairness and credibility is important to me, so no, I wouldn't do it. There's plenty of ****ty things I might do in the world, but I draw some lines, too, and in my book, accusing somebody of racism/being a racist is a very serious thing. I certainly think you have little right to get all uptight about fairness in the game if your own standards of behaviour are that poor.

 

[tooextracool]

No way, there's too much to lose if you get caught out making stuff up.

And really was there much to lose when everybody was already aware that there was no evidence? The fact that both men deny the others claim confirms that one man is already lying and hence already prepared to take that risk.

 

[Unattainableguy]

It's pretty silly to accuse the umpires of bias, but perfectly fair to call them for incompetence.

Yea, but then ratio of bad decisions against/in favor of both teams would be about same which obviously wasn't the case in 2nd test. Anyway

 

[roseboy64]

Sure. I just think with that mindset India is going to lose. It's the wrong mindset. They were still in a position to win or at the least draw the game at the start of their 2nd innings. I reckon repeating the last 10-15 overs again, few teams would have ended up winning that game against India. But Australia won it and it was a performance needed because of that situation. It wasn't an outcome that came about because of earlier umpiring mistakes. Although, actually, it ultimately was, but the end it was India's failing and not the umpires for closing out the match to a draw.

I hope I am making sense. I am saying, even despite all that went against them, they still should have drawn and it was the Australians that made that last effort to win.

So you expect tailenders to last out that many overs? Silly. Unreasonable to expect numbers 8 to 11 to last out that long against international standard bowlers. Possible yes, but highly unlikely.

 

[tooextracool]

Kumble has no problem telling the world media that umpires were to blame for result and accusing Australia of playing in a manner contrary to the spirit of the game.

What makes you think that he would be backward in coming forward as regards to a justifiable complaint og racism?

He's a lesser man than I think he is if that is the case

I think there might be a clarification to be made here. My point was that if Kumble is in a similar position in the next test at Perth he would probably do the same as Ponting even if the claim is not true merely because of the personal feud between the 2 teams.

 

[shortpitched713]

Australian tail enders would have done it.

 

[social]

I think there might be a clarification to be made here. My point was that if Kumble is in a similar position in the next test at Perth he would probably do the same as Ponting even if the claim is not true merely because of the personal feud between the 2 teams.

Everything I've heard and read about Kumble leads me to be skeptical in this regard.

He might appeal for everything under the sun but that is totally different from denigrating someone's character to that degree.

Who knows? Maybe I pay him too much credit

 

[tooextracool]

The first refuge of those with poor standards is always to claim that anybody that claims a different (or in this case, better) standard is simply being dishonest with themselves. Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before.

I do care what people think of me, and fairness and credibility is important to me, so no, I wouldn't do it. There's plenty of ****ty things I might do in the world, but I draw some lines, too, and in my book, accusing somebody of racism/being a racist is a very serious thing. I certainly think you have little right to get all uptight about fairness in the game if your own standards of behaviour are that poor.

Never claimed that 'anybody' that did it was being dishonest with themselves, just a lot of people would. Personally, you can insult my standard of integrity all you want, I know that i have a fairly decent code of honesty. As a wicket keeper I have never ever gone up for a caught behind when the batsman didnt knick it. Never managed to get myself to be fake enough to make an appeal when i know it isnt out. The fact that billions of keepers do it everyday does not affect me, its a personal choice.
My original point was merely an indication that many people would do it, not to talk about my own code of conduct. I've had people falsely accuse me of doing things that were downright insulting and socially deriding just because they had a grudge against me. Whether you do it or not, the world is full of people that are more than willing to stab you in the back if they dont like you. just because some of these players are people that you and many people worship it does not mean that they are not assholes and all maintain a perfect code of conduct. That was my point. It had nothing to do with me or you. The reference to myself was used as a way to suggest that it was commonplace for someone to do that, not that I personally given the exact same situation would do it.

 

[Evermind]

Yea, but then ratio of bad decisions against/in favor of both teams would be about same which obviously wasn't the case in 2nd test. Anyway

But that's just the way randomness works. If you toss a coin 10 times, you're most likely to get 5 heads and 5 tails, but the possibility of 8 heads and 2 tails isn't all that far behind, given the small sample size.

That's why everyone is talking about things not evening out on a small scale, but how they do even out over thousands of decisions over half a century.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Accusing them of racism is one thing. But bans for accusations of bias?

You'd have to ban half the forum then.

Sorry, probably not the best turn of phrase. More meant accusing them of cheating.

 

[Slow Love™]

Never claimed that 'anybody' that did it was being dishonest with themselves, just a lot of people would. Personally, you can insult my standard of integrity all you want, I know that i have a fairly decent code of honesty. As a wicket keeper I have never ever gone up for a caught behind when the batsman didnt knick it. Never managed to get myself to be fake enough to make an appeal when i know it isnt out. The fact that billions of keepers do it everyday does not affect me, its a personal choice.
My original point was merely an indication that many people would do it, not to talk about my own code of conduct. I've had people falsely accuse me of doing things that were downright insulting and socially deriding just because they had a grudge against me. Whether you do it or not, the world is full of people that are more than willing to stab you in the back if they dont like you. just because some of these players are people that you and many people worship it does not mean that they are not assholes and all maintain a perfect code of conduct. That was my point. It had nothing to do with me or you.

This is fair enough, and I probably reacted to your forum goody goody comment, but remember that I was responding to what seemed on the face of it a clear indication on your part that you would indeed make such a false accusation. Apologies if I misunderstood.

I wouldn't dispute that there is a fair amount of people that would.

 

[tooextracool]

Everything I've heard and read about Kumble leads me to be skeptical in this regard.

He might appeal for everything under the sun but that is totally different from denigrating someone's character to that degree.

Who knows? Maybe I pay him too much credit

Honestly if someone perceives injustice against them, theres always the possibility of them responding in kind. You are probably right though, I dont think Kumble would stoop as low as Ponting in that regard.

 

[roseboy64]

Australia aren't immune either. Mumbai 2004 for example. Today was particularly bad though. Even after Dravid's dismissal, which was indeed a very poor decision, India had 6 wickets in hand with under a session to bat. They still had 4 wickets in hand and two set batsmen going into the final hour, and to top if off part timers took 6 of the last 7 wickets. India have nobody to blame for those wickets except themselves.

'Twas an extended session though. You're acting as if the last session was only an hour long.
India should have drawn the match but considering 3 of those 6 wickets were tailenders and a 4th was a batsman completely at seas, they did well to even take it that close.

 

[tooextracool]

This is fair enough, and I probably reacted to your forum goody goody comment, but remember that I was responding to what seemed on the face of it a clear indication on your part that you would indeed make such a false accusation. Apologies if I misunderstood.

I wouldn't dispute that there is a fair amount of people that would.

No issues, perhaps another phrase would have been more apt. Just to clear things up, my initial point was merely to indicate that a lot of people would rather than to suggest that I would do the same in the said situation

 

[roseboy64]

Australian tail enders would have done it.

And I would expect them to. Talking about every other team though.

 

[nightprowler10]

Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?

I've never hoped that the opposition would hold on for a draw before now. A very strange feeling.

Welcome back champ.

Wow

AWTA.

Was watching the scorecard at work with an Indian co-worker. I almost fell off my chair in horror when I was reading about the last over.

 

[Unattainableguy]

And I would expect them to. Talking about every other team though.

I think PAK tail would be the quickest to get out with Kaneria being their leader