Turbinator
Cricketer Of The Year
True.
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Harbhajan reignites racism storm
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
MantraMagic
Cricket Spectator
If Harbhajan genuinely called Symonds a monkey then the Hanuman defence (monkey God) doesnt really stack up.
But I do feel that the "teri maan ki" explanation is extremely plausible. It's often used in India and can be said in anger as well as in jest. It simply means "your mother's" and it often dies there without continuation into an actual insult ie no further words.
But I do feel that the "teri maan ki" explanation is extremely plausible. It's often used in India and can be said in anger as well as in jest. It simply means "your mother's" and it often dies there without continuation into an actual insult ie no further words.
Support from me, for what it counts. Anything said about my race gets divided by the billion-and-half that share my race and by the billion-and-half of the perpetrator.Well I am not getting any support (on the forum) so I will say no more
BTW I am pretty sure that most of these allegedly 95% of the population will have a trip point even with respect to their mothers being called names. And if not their mothers, then something else specific to them. Will require an extraordinary effort to define limits one way or the other.
archie mac
International Coach
Yes I agree, calling me racial names is well down on my list of insults, he fact I could not care less tbh
Comes just above calling me a convict
archie mac
International Coach
That hurt, I was not even talkingSydney: The Indian team management is ready to defend Harbhajan Singh when the ICC hearing on the charge of racial abuse against the Indian off-spinner takes place on Sunday. In an exclusive chat with CNN-IBN's Sports Editor Gaurav Kalra, India manager Chetan Chauhan defended Harbhajan and also said that the Australians were playing their mind games.
Chetan Chauhan: I don't think he (Harbhajan Singh) had uttered any word or used any wrong word of which he has been charged with. We have got the hearing postpone to Sunday evening.
Gaurav Kalra: What's your reflection on Harbhajan's state of mind?
Chetan Chauhan: He is ok. There is nothing wrong with him. Few things happen on the ground and that is what has happened. The rest of course will be argued in the hearing.
Gaurav Kalra: Matthew Hayden has said in the Press Conference today that he believes Australia have a strong case. What is your view?
Chetan Chauhan: Well, they will definitely say that because I think Harbhajan is a person who is troubling them the most and he is one of the strike bowlers and attacking bowler for India and they would definitely want him out of the attack. That could be the reason why they are claiming that they have a strong case. But at the same time, I would also say that even we have a strong case as he didn't utter anything that was wrong and we will back him up.
Gaurav Kalra: Do you find this a bit strange that Australia are accusing someone is over-excessive tactics or something like this.
Chetan Chauhan: It is just that in the past the retaliation had not come from the Indians - we had accepted whatever they had said - the slang, the sledging or whatever was there, we would never answer back. But now the Indian boys have started answering back and maybe that is the reason why they are a bit surprised and shocked and hence, they are not able to gulp it down.
Chetan Chauhan: I don't think he (Harbhajan Singh) had uttered any word or used any wrong word of which he has been charged with. We have got the hearing postpone to Sunday evening.
Gaurav Kalra: What's your reflection on Harbhajan's state of mind?
Chetan Chauhan: He is ok. There is nothing wrong with him. Few things happen on the ground and that is what has happened. The rest of course will be argued in the hearing.
Gaurav Kalra: Matthew Hayden has said in the Press Conference today that he believes Australia have a strong case. What is your view?
Chetan Chauhan: Well, they will definitely say that because I think Harbhajan is a person who is troubling them the most and he is one of the strike bowlers and attacking bowler for India and they would definitely want him out of the attack. That could be the reason why they are claiming that they have a strong case. But at the same time, I would also say that even we have a strong case as he didn't utter anything that was wrong and we will back him up.
Gaurav Kalra: Do you find this a bit strange that Australia are accusing someone is over-excessive tactics or something like this.
Chetan Chauhan: It is just that in the past the retaliation had not come from the Indians - we had accepted whatever they had said - the slang, the sledging or whatever was there, we would never answer back. But now the Indian boys have started answering back and maybe that is the reason why they are a bit surprised and shocked and hence, they are not able to gulp it down.
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What rubbish!
Sledging is part and parcel of the Autralian game and to suggest that the players suddenly cant handle being called a wanker, etc when they reach test cricket is laughable
The Australians obviously thought he made a racist comment
The Indians simply have to deny it and because there is no audio evidence/language differences etc etc, the match referee will throw the complaint out
Move on ffs
Slow Love™
International Captain
It might be plausible, but Harbhajan certainly didn't help his cause by expressing such confusion about what the Aussies might possibly be offended by when he was apparently saying nothing and "just trying to play well and win the match".
Myself, I don't really know what the hearing is for. If the umpires didn't hear it and the word of the players isn't enough, I don't really see what can be accomplished. I find it plausible that Harbhajan might have said monkey because casual offensively racial comments these days frequently aren't about a genuine belief in the inferiority of somebody's ethnic background so much as a way to rile your opponent/interlocuter because you know it will sting. And certainly, the Indian players know this by now, and Harbhajan gets so riled up it just wouldn't surprise me.
Either way, it's likely to be an utter mess with Mike Proctor in charge.
Having spent some time in the American mid-west I have been at the wrong end of a racist comment or two (and on other occasions some unexpected warmth as well from yet other folks).
With that little background (and also fully knowing first hand that Indians are capable of carrying prejudices along racial lines), I can safely say that racism is a white mans burden. I dont condone it either in general or in particular for the brown people to participate in it . Indians have their own burdens (which partly explains the much better behavior in India-Pakistan matches by the same folks) , but racism isnt one of them.
In this particular incident, the simple fact is that Indians had nothing to do with the genocidal treatment of Australian aboriginals. So some Indian brownneck (like Harbhajan) calling Symonds a monkey epithet does not have the same historical baggage as an Australian white player doing it. Doesnt make it a forgivable thing to do and Symonds himself is right to be peeved, but it just does not carry the sins of a dozen generations, for all the rest of the world to fall like a ton of bricks on Harbhajan (for whom, I hold no real brief).
Just like there are things that say a Harbhajan has never and should never ever utter in any circumstance, but that would be - as someone else put it for family innuendo - merely poor schoolboy humor from say a Gibbs' mouth (an incident involving Pakistani players)
After 15 pages of racism discussions around Harbhajan and cultural differences, I thought this needed to be said. These are all various shades of gray and difficult to tabulate in a rule book (Harbhajan faces a hearing based on a rule book). So I would be in favor of zero tolerance for all insulting or sledging - if this is to be an international game.
Within Australian domestic cricket - where the social and historical norms are possibly uniform, you can all call your mothers or whoevers, whatevers you want.
With that little background (and also fully knowing first hand that Indians are capable of carrying prejudices along racial lines), I can safely say that racism is a white mans burden. I dont condone it either in general or in particular for the brown people to participate in it . Indians have their own burdens (which partly explains the much better behavior in India-Pakistan matches by the same folks) , but racism isnt one of them.
In this particular incident, the simple fact is that Indians had nothing to do with the genocidal treatment of Australian aboriginals. So some Indian brownneck (like Harbhajan) calling Symonds a monkey epithet does not have the same historical baggage as an Australian white player doing it. Doesnt make it a forgivable thing to do and Symonds himself is right to be peeved, but it just does not carry the sins of a dozen generations, for all the rest of the world to fall like a ton of bricks on Harbhajan (for whom, I hold no real brief).
Just like there are things that say a Harbhajan has never and should never ever utter in any circumstance, but that would be - as someone else put it for family innuendo - merely poor schoolboy humor from say a Gibbs' mouth (an incident involving Pakistani players)
After 15 pages of racism discussions around Harbhajan and cultural differences, I thought this needed to be said. These are all various shades of gray and difficult to tabulate in a rule book (Harbhajan faces a hearing based on a rule book). So I would be in favor of zero tolerance for all insulting or sledging - if this is to be an international game.
Within Australian domestic cricket - where the social and historical norms are possibly uniform, you can all call your mothers or whoevers, whatevers you want.
Evermind
International Debutant
It's a part and parcel of the Australian game, not the international game. They can do whatever the hell they want in their domestic circuit. But expecting the whole world to endure your dirty mouth is way too much to ask. If you dish it out, you should be able to take it, otherwise you end up looking like a loser/whiner a la McGrath. It's poor class and poor sportsmanship.
That said, racism is a no-no, but so are comments about one's mother and whatever else the juvenile Ponting/Symonds whoever has been spouting out.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
I do not know how many people because 80% people in india are more offended by remarks against family and dirtly swears then being called a racially motivated name.
It is more of a case of indians generally being more family oriented unlike aussies who are more westerned and independent.
racism is bad
Banned
i don't think they will be able to prove it either way, no one will be punished from either side
its a shame because it does look like he said somthing that shouldn't have been said
duffer
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So you've eliminated the possibility of a misunderstanding?
Evermind
International Debutant
Though it's unconfirmed, it's just sad that poor Symonds has to take racism from the Indians, considering no doubt he gets some **** from his white teammates. It's well known that the Australian team did use to incorporate racial terms in its sledging, and the Indians are showing poor form in dishing it out not to the party that used to give it to them, but someone of a different race altogether.
Top_Cat
Request Your Custom Title Now!
No, it's stupid if you know anything about Torts. Neither Symonds or Ponting made the comments publicly, the info about what Harbhajan is alleged to have said has been media speculation, not comments attributed to either Symonds or Ponting directly. And that's if they're proveably untrue and since, at this stage, it would appear that if they're not proveably true than they're not proveably untrue either, it's all crap and bluster from the India VP of the BCCI.
