*** Official *** Pakistan in India

[Craig]

Hmmmm........ the main purpose this series seems to serve is to fatten up the averages of Indian players. I just hope there isn't a significant dump back to Earth when they hit these shores because I'd hazard that the attacks will be far less friendly and the pitches not quite as good to bat on (aside from pudding pie Melbourne).

I thought your home town wicket was a batsmen's paradise if you batted first on it?

 

[gettingbetter]

...another Misbah/Akmal partnership...

 

[haroon510]

wow pakistan has shown alot of resistance here... one partnership after another..

maybe it is because of younis who is leading from front that brought a new breath and spirit to the team..
yousuf is a dispointment again.. lets hope he scores in the second innings..

 

[Evermind]

It's either Pakistan showing more resolve, or India not giving a **** anymore. Typically, they're satisfied to get a draw out of the match and are not bothering with intense effort. Look at the number of extras conceded - the bowling has been unchallenging and dismal.

If India had the choice, they'd be content to let Pakistan bat to 700 and not bother with the second innings altogether.

 

[Athlai]

Misbah-ul-Haq
2001: 38 @ 19
2002: 69 @ 11.5
2003: 13 @ 13

2007: 381 @ 63.50

Not a shabby come back.

 

[NUFAN]

54 Extras !!!!!!

Ishant would have given 90% of them when he willleran to bowl well if he had bowled line and legth th eun even bounce would have given him more than the one wicket that he has now

First thing I noticed with the scorecard too.

70 extras!! in 369 runs, crazy!! At this rate it'll get to 100!

If they concede 2 more extras they have the record for the most ever in Test Cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol, don't compare Kanitkar to frickin' Yuvraj. It doesn't take a genius to see the talent difference between the two.

You guys can be pessimistic all you like, but lets not go overboard.

lol... not really comparing them as players... But juz pointing out that a couple of guys had sudden success juz before the big series down under....


Actually, I do think Yuvi is one batsman who CAN do well in Australia, provided he bats sensibly early on and gets himself accustomed to the pace and bounce, as I think he perhaps has the best cuts and pulls in the side and is perhaps the only one who can play them even against real pace without too much trouble.

 

[honestbharani]

Thanks Jono for putting my sentiments. I thought of replying to all the pessimism but resisted. Was waiting for an apt post from you.

well, it is not exactly pessimism, I juz think a number of our players get hurried by real pace on a track with bounce... With guys like Sachin and Dravid, it is mostly juz age, IMO, while Ganguly and Laxman have never really been that quick with their feet. If you see the last series, the track that had real pace and carry was Melbourne and they struggled, even in the ODI there during the final series....


I mean, I will be the happiest if we do well in Australia, but I juz have some concerns given how some of our batsmen are shaping up..


That said, the value of going into such a big tour with a lot of runs behind you cannot be underestimated at all.

 

[silentstriker]

Look at the number of extras conceded - the bowling has been unchallenging and dismal.

Haha, isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

In any case, India need better pitches. They either need to start turning and breaking from day one, or offer something to fast bowlers. This is dire.

 

[Evermind]

Look at the number of extras conceded - the bowling has been unchallenging and dismal.

Haha, isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

?! I certainly agree that the Pakistani bowling has been unchallening and dismal except for Tanvir (during some moments).

There isn't much a bowler can do, given the surface, but putting the ball in the right areas would be a start. They need to start doing something about the pitches in India, but that's been talked about since what, 1156 AD, and absolutely nothing's been done.

 

[Pratters]

well, it is not exactly pessimism, I juz think a number of our players get hurried by real pace on a track with bounce... With guys like Sachin and Dravid, it is mostly juz age, IMO, while Ganguly and Laxman have never really been that quick with their feet. If you see the last series, the track that had real pace and carry was Melbourne and they struggled, even in the ODI there during the final series....


I mean, I will be the happiest if we do well in Australia, but I juz have some concerns given how some of our batsmen are shaping up..


That said, the value of going into such a big tour with a lot of runs behind you cannot be underestimated at all.

The funny thing abt all this is that India are now left with more questions than answers... Gambhir doesn't exactly inspire confidence that he is a better bet than Karthik at the top, neither does Parthiv inspire confidence that he is a better wicket keeper than Karthik... So picking these two above Karthik would be wrong and also rather inconvenient for the selectors as by picking Karthik, you can get to select an extra bowler, since he doubles up as the second wicket keeper in the squad. That said, Karthik looks like he is a confidence player and at the moment, he is severely lacking in that, so there are not exactly great odds of him doing well in Australia either... With Yuvraj playing the sort of "glamour boy" innings that he has, he is almost going to be a certainty for the boxingn day Test, which means we will have to open with Dravid and Jaffar with Laxman at 3 or drop Dhoni and play DK as the opener/wicket keeper.... Funny how the settled test side at the end of the England tour looks like a distant memory now.


I still believe in my theory that in order to do well, you have to have a settled top 3 and by the looks of things, we won't have that in OZ... So preparing for the worst, tbh...

I remember similar stuff happening to us before the 99 tour to Australia. Sachin had taken over for the second time as captain and we had the likes of Debang Gandhi and Hrishikesh Kanitkar setting the world on fire.. We all saw how it ended for us in Australia...


Hoping the likes of Jaffar and Ganguly do well in Australia in my heart, but just speaking objectively, I don't see Jaffar, Ganguly and Laxman and even Sachin to an extent being able to play bouncing balls at pace at all. If Australia prepare flat decks or slow pitches or turners or greentops, I think India will go in with a chance. But on a deck with good pace and a lot of bounce, I think India will always get found out... Our batsmen are just a little too slow with their footwork and a number of them are plain lazy as well... Always happy to camp on the backfoot so that they can leave a lot of deliveries outside off, score easily by tucking the ball away on the leg side (a very natural shot for subcontinent batsmen) and simply being able to play with a vertical bat, because they KNOW that the ball won't rise much above the thighs or waist from a normal good length or even short of good length.


It is just a different ball game altogether when the ball can go well above waist high and even above the stumps at pace and you are required to pull out your cuts and pulls. I just think a number of our batsmen are slightly slower than needed with their reflexes and co-ordination to play such shots....

A lot of it is pessimism according to me.

1. You say you don't see Jaffer, Ganguly, Laxman or Tednulkar being able to play bouncy balls at pace. For your information, most pitches in Australia have not been like say Perth used to be back in the day. I don't see why we would have a huge problem adopting to the Australian pitches the way they have been over the past 4-5 years.

2. Hrishikesh Kanitkar and Gandhi are unrelated to India's performance in this tour, whatever it might be.

3. How has India making runs left them with more questions than answers? Options and people fighting for places by making runs is always good for the competition and the team. It is an old cricket adage which holds good 99.9% times. Why is our top 3 a problem? Dravid will be number 3 99.99% and despite Dravid's poor form, I don't have huge concerns about him. Among the top 6, 1 opening slot is a problem while we have 1 extra batsman for the middle order. That is not a HUGE problem the way I see it. Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman and Yuvraj in form is the best thing India could have asked for.

4. People being injured right now is good IMO. It gives us the chance to assess our options. We know how Dhoni keeps, we know how Karthik keeps and we also know that Irfan Pathan would be a useful number 8 and is an option with the ball. Options coming up is never bad. It gives people the opportunity to choose better. I have faith in Kumble that he will choose aptly - he has shown a keen sense in this regard till now.

I do feel your posts right now are deep in pessimism for sure.

 

[Jono]

The ball was rolling by the end of the day off Yuvraj's bowling. How Karthik is supposed to keep that i'm not sure.

I know this match should go down as a draw, but seriously if the ball starts rolling like that more often it'd be ridiculously hard to bat. Like the ball wasn't bouncing at all for a couple of Yuvi's deliveries. What the hell?

 

[honestbharani]

A lot of it is pessimism according to me.

1. You say you don't see Jaffer, Ganguly, Laxman or Tednulkar being able to play bouncy balls at pace. For your information, most pitches in Australia have not been like say Perth used to be back in the day. I don't see why we would have a huge problem adopting to the Australian pitches the way they have been over the past 4-5 years.

I know that pitches aren't the same across Australia and I know that we MAY not get the sort of wickets that will suit Australia every time. In fact, I basically mentioned that in any other kind of track, we will have a good chance of doing well.... Not being too pessimistic there. But I think the fact that the best way for Australia to beat India would be to prepare bouncy fast tracks would not be lost on most, if not all, of the Australian decision makers and I won't be surprised if they do prepare tracks with instructions, esp. if we do well in the first couple of tests, coz, as I understand it, Sydney always is almost subcontinent like, and Melbourne apparently has become like one recently.

That said, it doesn't take away the fact that Indians do have that particular weakness in their batting line up and the only reason I am worried about this is because last time we encountered similar conditions in Nagpur or even the MCG in the last tour, we did collapse...

2. Hrishikesh Kanitkar and Gandhi are unrelated to India's performance in this tour, whatever it might be.

I know they are, I juz thought it was just a bit of deja vu, at least for me... Seeing an opener and a middle order guy do well juz before an Australian tour. I know it has nothing to do with what is going to happen.. Juz a curious thing that I felt could be commented upon.

3. How has India making runs left them with more questions than answers? Options and people fighting for places by making runs is always good for the competition and the team. It is an old cricket adage which holds good 99.9% times. Why is our top 3 a problem? Dravid will be number 3 99.99% and despite Dravid's poor form, I don't have huge concerns about him. Among the top 6, 1 opening slot is a problem while we have 1 extra batsman for the middle order. That is not a HUGE problem the way I see it. Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman and Yuvraj in form is the best thing India could have asked for.

It is a bad thing because now India will be FORCED to play Yuvraj. I don't see the selectors having the guts to ask a guy to sit out after an 164, and I don't see them dropping any of the fab four in the middle order, which IMO is the wrong way to go about it. I don't see Dravid opening and failing much, but I just think the top 3 are specialized positions and there are just small things which affect a person's performance even if he moves from 3 to 2 and is used to coming in at nothing for 1. AFAIC, it might be better to drop Dravid instead of asking him to open when he is already out of touch. He may come good but do India honestly see him as an opener? I think asking a middle order guy to open in tests just because some other middle order guy is also in form is not the best way to select a side. If Yuvraj has to play, let them drop Dravid who has had a poor run. If they feel that Yuvi is still not part of our best middle order, then he should be asked to sit out even if he has played a sensational knock last time. I just don't like the idea of the opening position being tampered with. We never did well away from home without a settled opening pair.....

4. People being injured right now is good IMO. It gives us the chance to assess our options. We know how Dhoni keeps, we know how Karthik is and we also know that Irfan Pathan would be a useful number 8 and is an option with the ball. Options coming up is never bad. It gives people the opportunity to choose better. I have faith in Kumble that he will choose aptly - he has shown a keen sense in this regard till now.

I do hope he will... For me, Karthik should be in the squad and should probably open in the first test, simply because I don't think Gambhir is a better option. Not sure about Parthiv, maybe he has a better technique but I don't remember him opening much. If anyone should replace Karthik, I would rather have Chopra and ask Jaffar to play just that touch more positively... And Parthiv is nowhere near world class as a keeper, even now. I dunno from where the jounalists get crap like "his keeping has improved"... I have watched him in 3 or 4 games recently, including the games against RSA A side and in the challenger trophy as well and he has looked as awful as he has always done. Picking him as the back up keeper simply because he has been in better batting form would be the worst mistake, but something I think is likely to happen...

I do feel your posts right now are deep in pessimism for sure.

Well, tbh, re-reading my posts, I have to accept that I was a little pessimistic there but it is how I honestly feel... Sorry abt it, but I do feel a bit pessimistic about how we are going to go in Australia but I don't think it is baseless.

 

[honestbharani]

The ball was rolling by the end of the day off Yuvraj's bowling. How Karthik is supposed to keep that i'm not sure.

I know this match should go down as a draw, but seriously if the ball starts rolling like that more often it'd be ridiculously hard to bat. Like the ball wasn't bouncing at all for a couple of Yuvi's deliveries. What the hell?

what happened? The pitch is that bad?

I didn't watch the day's play today... BTW, how was DK's keeping? Did he put down anything or give away easy byes?

 

[Jono]

He kept poorly, but at the same time was also unlucky considering some of the byes that went against his name were harsh. I know it sounds like I'm sitting on the fence, but he wasn't as bad as the bye count suggest he was.

And Yuvraj's last over involved the ball literally rolling (I'm not exaggerating) including the last ball which almost rolled on to off stump and then almost broke Karthik's toe!!!

 

[Pratters]

1. I scanned through your post. India are not forced to play Yuvraj. India can still play Laxman and Ganguly and pu Yuvraj in the bench. We have the option of playing 2 of the three players in the middle order who are all in form. That is always good.

2. Dravid wont open, not at this stage. It will either be Yuvraj, Karthik, Gambhir or Chopra. I don't see how Yuvraj is that bad an option compared to the other two options of Gambhir and Karthik. Yuvraj can play pace bowling well, he is desperate to play in the XI and would really want to make an impression like he did in this test. Chopra would be my number 1 option but I wouldn't mind if Yuvraj opens.

3. The pitch aspect - it has more to do with seeing India forever in the 90s crapping up time and again. The current Indian team has not embarassed itself in South Africa or England. South Africa should be a pointer for you to take it easy a bit...

4. Parthiv Patel wont keep in the upcoming series according to me. It will either be Dhoni or Karthik.

 

[honestbharani]

He kept poorly, but at the same time was also unlucky considering some of the byes that went against his name were harsh. I know it sounds like I'm sitting on the fence, but he wasn't as bad as the bye count suggest he was.

And Yuvraj's last over involved the ball literally rolling (I'm not exaggerating) including the last ball which almost rolled on to off stump and then almost broke Karthik's toe!!!

oh... that's interesting..

I wonder whether playing as a specialist batsman is taking its toll on his keeping, because he was always an ace keeper, whatever be his other faults.

 

[honestbharani]

1. I scanned through your post. India are not forced to play Yuvraj. India can still play Laxman and Ganguly and pu Yuvraj in the bench. We have the option of playing 2 of the three players in the middle order who are all in form. That is always good.

2. Dravid wont open, not at this stage. It will either be Yuvraj, Karthik, Gambhir or Chopra. I don't see how Yuvraj is that bad an option compared to the other two options of Gambhir and Karthik. Yuvraj can play pace bowling well, he is desperate to play in the XI and would really want to make an impression like he did in this test. Chopra would be my number 1 option but I wouldn't mind if Yuvraj opens.

3. The pitch aspect - it has more to do with seeing India forever in the 90s crapping up time and again. The current Indian team has not embarassed itself in South Africa or England. South Africa should be a pointer for you to take it easy a bit...

4. Parthiv Patel wont keep in the upcoming series according to me. It will either be Dhoni or Karthik.

wel, tbh, I kinda agree with all of your posts, except about Yuvraj opening, I just think we might destroy his confidence if he does open and doesn't do well... What we gain will be small compared to what we will lose, for me.


But the real thing is, knowing the Indian selectors and given how things work here, I don't think things will work out the way you are saying they will. That is the main cause for my pessimism more than anything else.

 

[Pratters]

wel, tbh, I kinda agree with all of your posts, except about Yuvraj opening, I just think we might destroy his confidence if he does open and doesn't do well... What we gain will be small compared to what we will lose, for me.


But the real thing is, knowing the Indian selectors and given how things work here, I don't think things will work out the way you are saying they will. That is the main cause for my pessimism more than anything else.

Glad you do agree mostly.

On the Indian selectors - I think it is very easy to blame them when they do not select the team I or you want them to select but we do not applaud them similarly when they choose the right teams. This selection committee has been doing pretty well I think and I don't have issues with them.

 

[Beleg]

If I were the Pakistani captain, I wouldn't be thinking the game is lost. I'be focusing on how to win it because it is still possible.

Score around 150 runs in the first session, declare and try to get India out cheaply. At this stage it doesn't matter if the ploy works on not - a series is at stake. If it works, and India are bundled out for around 200 then Pakistan will have to chase 300 on the last day - which is by no means an easy task - but it's better then nothing. And it it doesn't work, well, we got nothing to lose.

So, please, please, please - ATTACK tommorrow morning.