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***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Are you from the Richard's school of been tried, lets not try again?
Not especially. I'm from logic's school of picking the best batsmen for each role in the team. Obviously if someone fails regularly, picking them again doesn't make as much sense, but sometimes you have to look beyond the numbers and consider that someone might be worth another go if you think they have what it takes.

All 3, Amla, Dippenaar and McKenzie have similar stats at both FC and International level and Amla, other than age, has over things going for him (as I mentioned in my previous post - future captain. but with Smith and Prince being as young as they are...)
I don't particularly buy into the captaincy point; I'd be extremely surprised if he was ever in the frame for that during his career. Regardless of which, as I said, this innings has changed my mind on him a bit. And changing my mind on a player based on one innings isn't something I generally do, especially an innings on a flattering pitch against an attack dropping like flies in which he got dropped early. But as I said before, he seems to be improving his technique every series. When I first saw him, he flicked his wrists through all his offside shots inviting chances of any small mistiming and looked completely all at see to the shorter ball (even just short of a length!), not to mention his ridiculous whirlwind backlift. I don't think his temperament, eye or domestic record was ever much in question; more just his technique against high class bowling. Slowly but surely though, he seems to be fixing that technique up; he now plays with the full face of the blade on the off side more often than not and waits for the balls on his pads which he murders. His back defence is solid (despite getting out in the first innings playing it, he didn't really do a lot wrong..) and he leaves the really short ball well now also. He also seems to have developed an effective pull. It seems to get better with every series, even though he hasn't been scoring that many.

I was strongly in favour of his dropping for a more technically sound player like Dippenaar or McKenzie before this test, but now, providing he could be moved down the order a bit, I actually don't mind him being picked. He's younger than the other two and has improved his technique immensely since his debut to a point where it is passable now and could well be very good by the series we see him play.

I do agree with the no. 3 thing though. I've never bought the whole 'number 3, best batsman' thing, but there is just something about having a debutant or yougnster in that positon that irks me.
I don't buy the best batsman diatribe either either, but I don't particularly mind if an inexperienced player bats there. Regardless of overall batsmanship and experience, the player most suited to batting #3 should bat there. And while Amla seems to be a much better batsman than I gave him credit for as well as an ever-improving one, he does still struggle against the swinging and seaming ball. Even when he was on 100+ he struggled against the second new ball when it moved a bit and he struggled in both innings early on in this match. He seems a good player of spin and even a good player of pace and bounce now providing it isn't moving too much, so I'd really like to see him bat at 5 or 6. I'd love to see Kallis and Prince bat at 3 and 4 respectively but I don't see it happening - Kallis doesn't like batting three and Prince simply isn't suited to it.
 
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gettingbetter

State Vice-Captain
I'll reply to you later Prince,

SA decalred with Amla on 176, good knock by him as well as Kallis. NZ now have to chase 531 and are already 3 down with Nel taking 2 and Steyn 1.

Do you think if Harris remains wicketless that Pollock will come back?

Another question for those out there, how many centuries has Kallis hit in a row now? I think it might be 4, I know he had a run like this a few years ago too.
 

Corli

U19 Cricketer
Another question for those out there, how many centuries has Kallis hit in a row now? I think it might be 4, I know he had a run like this a few years ago too.
Kallis now has 4 centuries in 3 consecutive matches. In late 2003 and early 2004 he made 100s in 5 consecutive matches against the West Indies and New Zealand.
 

thedarkmullet

School Boy/Girl Captain
Wow, just saw cricinfo. Bond injured and gone, Oram injured, Papps sick as a dog, Fleming playing on despite being injured.

Looks like normality is to resume. What is it about NZ players and their bloody injuries!?

......and why dont the aussies get them nearly as much?
 

jammay123

State 12th Man
Wow, just saw cricinfo. Bond injured and gone, Oram injured, Papps sick as a dog, Fleming playing on despite being injured.

Looks like normality is to resume. What is it about NZ players and their bloody injuries!?

......and why dont the aussies get them nearly as much?
because the aussies are indestructible.

new zealand need to gat some proper openers. cumming looks completly out of his death and papps is just as bad. are their any other players that NZ could pick who are any good?
 

Flem274*

123/5
because the aussies are indestructible.

new zealand need to gat some proper openers. cumming looks completly out of his death and papps is just as bad. are their any other players that NZ could pick who are any good?
Middle order players yes. Openers are: Jamie How, Shannon Stewart, Peter Ingram and Geoff Barnett may push for the opening position now. I don't think they'll try Matthew Bell again. I can't really see most of those succeeding. How isn't even the best opener in his own province never mind state side. Stewart will be tried very shortly as he's in his mid twenties now but he averages in the early thirties in FC so I doubt he'll make a difference. Peter Ingram has only just returned to FC last year and whilst he's making alot of runs he'll have to have around two or three good seasons before he's looked at. Geoff Barnett played for Canada in the WC and did very well. Saw him make a few 40's and a fifty as well I think. We'll have to wait four years before we can use him though.

As for the middle order. if they keep this up I can see Neil Broom coming in and maybe even the new and hopefully much fitter Jesse Ryder as well. We have middle order players on tap ATM with Nicol, Hay and De Gronholmme (sic) coming through the ranks along with others I've gone and forgotten.

Really this test is a disgraceful display now. We may not be world beaters but we are better than this. We're missing our brick wall of a number three in Peter Fulton and our best strike bowler bar bond in James Franklin. It will be interesting to see if Martin can keep this good form up for long as well. I think not, we all know he's good in SA, lets see him out side of SA and NZ before we say he's improved. I sincerely hope Mark Gillespie and Michael Mason jump the que in front of O'Brien as well. Do we know for sure if bond is injured? If so, how badly?

We can still win this game guys, big hundred, BIG DOUBLE HUNDRED!:ph34r:
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
new zealand need to gat some proper openers. cumming looks completly out of his death and papps is just as bad. are their any other players that NZ could pick who are any good?
No. The best option would be to lure Mark Richardson out of retirement and have him open with Papps.

The other options (as Phlegm has highlighted) are no better than Papps/Cumming. How is poor, Ingram is not much better (too inconsistant), Matty Bell isn't good enough, Sam Fairley is piss poor, Shanan Stewart and Todd Astle are okay, but Papps and Cumming are better, sadly.

Middle order players are round in abundance. I don't think de Grandhomme is eligible yet, nor is Johann Myburgh or Kruger van Wyk. Geoff Barnett isn't eligible and he's crap anyway - your CD bias is shining through even suggesting him, Phlegm.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
We just gift him runs really.
Doesn't help when we drop him on 2. That dropped chance cost us 174 runs, and I'm pertty sure Michael Mason dropped Kallis just after he reached his century. Two fielding lapses, over 200 runs.
 

JBH001

International Regular
Richardson, you joking right?

That guy is done and dusted with the game, and fair play to him, though we could really use someone with that kind of grit in our team. This has been a miserable test match bar the first two sessions and a bit - otherwise it has been utter turd.

And, whats with all the damn injuries? ffs!

And is it just me, or is it time we gave up on Bond? I think he costs the side too much than he gives with his penchant for constantly breaking down for some reason or the other. They dont seem to be 'normal' out for a test/odi injuries either - they always seem to be significant problems that keep him out for a considerable period of time. I would be far happier with settled bowling combinations, even if not as effective, and most of all - SOME DECENT OPENING BATSMEN!!! >_< >_< >_<
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Bond out for weeks.

Oram out for a while (probably the next test and some of the ODI's, hamstrings tend to be 2 weeks?)

Papps could play in the next test I believe.

Hmm.

Who's left...

Vettori
Cumming
Fleming
Gillespie
McCullum
Martin
Mason
O'Brien
Patel
Styris
Taylor
Vincent

Makes the selection process easy when you potentially only have to leave out two players.

O'Brien needs to be dropped, I can't see why Mason or Gillespie wouldn't have been given his place to begin with!

Martin's doing a good job and now has the job of leading our attack.

Patel will probably be a better wicket taking option than any other player we have in reserve in all honesty, and should definitely be given a chance.

The Oram blow sucks, as we lose his bowling, either throw the ball to Styris or lose a batsman (Franklin where are you!).

If Papps is injured and not feeling up to it then Cummings/Vincent should be the next opening partnership, I don't like it but Vincent would be happy to be in the squad and I'm sure he'd stick his head down and try to ground out some runs.

Cumming
Vincent
Fleming (hopefully that bruise will ease)
Styris
Taylor
McCullum (congratulations on the promotion)
Vettori
Mason
Gillespie
Patel
Martin

That is a helluva long tail, if we can bring Papps in, then we could drop Vincent after Taylor and leave out Gillespie.

What a tour...
 
Pathetic
To be honest I don't blame the bowlers.

That batting display was one of the worst in YEARS by NZ in tests imo. It was a good sunny day, we had a great chance to get a decent lead- i was thinking 120 lead.. then we end up behind by 120 8-)

Gotta hurt the bowlers who bowled to a perfect plan on day 1 to see it all go to waste.

Enough of this BS.
Just open with mccullum and fleming in the next game. We are gonna lose anyway. Can't do worse than what we are.

Are we allowed to bring in replacements?

F*** the attitude just play ryder now lol.
 

Flem274*

123/5
FFS why is it that every time we go to South Africa we have an injury list longer than the alphabet? Next time we send over crap FC players and then when they get injured after the first game send over the internationals.

Hamish Bennet should replace Bond. he may be young but he's got more F'ing potential and ability than the pathetic replacement we'll probably send over. Knowing Bracewell it'll be Tuffey or some other dire greentop bully.

It's absolutely pathetic that Martin is going to lead our attack now. Really shows how many injuries this lot get. The only other international first XI he'd make is Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

The first thing Justin Vaughan and his not so merry band of politicians should do is launch a medical investigation into why NZ seamers get 1000 more injuries than other international seamers. How many good bolwers have we lost to injury over the last 10-15 years? It's more than just bad luck surely.

Oram going down worries me, especially with Franklin down for the count. We have no genuine allrounder to replace him. Looking at the A team its likely to be Grant Elliot. Oh dear...

Time to promote some semi allrounders that can do one skill very well (Guys like Jimmy Franklin in other words). Guys like Nathan McCullum, Jesse Ryder etc.

I think it was Athlai that posted that team with the Boa-Constrictor length tail? I'm not keen on it because of our recent batting record. I think for the ODI's especially that we're going to have to selct alot of batsmen who bowl a bit and some bowlers who bat a bit.

So how many decent players do we have left alive?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Pathetic
To be honest I don't blame the bowlers.

That batting display was one of the worst in YEARS by NZ in tests imo. It was a good sunny day, we had a great chance to get a decent lead- i was thinking 120 lead.. then we end up behind by 120 8-)

Gotta hurt the bowlers who bowled to a perfect plan on day 1 to see it all go to waste.

Enough of this BS.
Just open with mccullum and fleming in the next game. We are gonna lose anyway. Can't do worse than what we are.
Are we allowed to bring in replacements?

F*** the attitude just play ryder now lol.
Oh yes we can....

I also find it tempting to play Ryder also.

I think Vincent should be used opening before McCullum and as Fleming is the only batsman that can get past 20 we should put him where he wants to bat so we can get the best out of him.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
I think it was Athlai that posted that team with the Boa-Constrictor length tail? I'm not keen on it because of our recent batting record. I think for the ODI's especially that we're going to have to selct alot of batsmen who bowl a bit and some bowlers who bat a bit.

So how many decent players do we have left alive?
TBF I used every batsman in the squad who's left standing. Depending on Papps fitness that is.
 

Flem274*

123/5
No. The best option would be to lure Mark Richardson out of retirement and have him open with Papps.

The other options (as Phlegm has highlighted) are no better than Papps/Cumming. How is poor, Ingram is not much better (too inconsistant), Matty Bell isn't good enough, Sam Fairley is piss poor, Shanan Stewart and Todd Astle are okay, but Papps and Cumming are better, sadly.

Middle order players are round in abundance. I don't think de Grandhomme is eligible yet, nor is Johann Myburgh or Kruger van Wyk. Geoff Barnett isn't eligible and he's crap anyway - your CD bias is shining through even suggesting him, Phlegm.
Hell yeah!

TBF I did criticize Oram and Taylor-two CD players-heavily before the test series.
 

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