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***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

Athlai

Not Terrible
Athlai, the thing is with papps- you can't guarantee we will be 40/0, I know I'd take 60/2 over 40/2 anyday.
I know papps has acutally done well in the odi's he has played but in the long run his batting is too slow.
I know his batting is slow but he is more reliable than other options, the benefits in this case outweigh the risks.



Mccullum has under achieved with the bat at tests- he does what you say anyway most of time vs good bowling line ups he will just score a good looking 20 or 30 and get out. I'd he do it as an opener or no3, why would it be a disaster? didn't you see how well he handled the excellent england bowlers at no 3 in lords 04? He would certianly be better than craig cumming, I know that.
Because I'd rather McCullum to shepard our tail than go out all guns blazing at the start of the innings, though he probably is better than Cumming.



And vincent is better as a middle order bat in tests, how showed that when he came back but was mysteriously dropped, i dont like him as an opener in tests but still would be a better choice than cumming.
Agreed.


You talk about Adams getting slaughtered but take a look at the odi stats and it shows Adams>> Franklin. i'm sick of people talking about how good franklin looked in one or 2 games when overall his odi record is probably the worst of any bowler who has played a reasonable number of games. People have been making excuses for him since 2004 when he bowled really well in one natwest game vs wi I think and keep talking about his potential . But stuff that, he has had plenty of chances in odi's and shown he is rubbish at it. Those are the facts, he turns in good performances and then backs it up with 3 or 4 shocking ones.
The defining factor here is, Franklin has a better economy than Adams in ODI.

And that means Adam's is shockingly expensive for me.
 
The defining factor here is, Franklin has a better economy than Adams in ODI.

And that means Adam's is shockingly expensive for me.
James franklin.. - Odi bowlingaverage 37, economy 5.11

Andre Adams- Odi bowling average 31, economy rate 5.22

That actually shows Adams to be a better odi bowler by a bit.. ok those stats were probably helped a bit by by the 2003 indian series on those pitches so overall I'd say theres nothing between them but Franklin gets too much respect as an odi player, with the bat Adams is better in odi's- look at that strike rate and I'd always take Adams over Franklin at the death batting in odi's.

I'm not even saying Adams should be playing odi's, but Franklin should certianly not be anywhere near that odi team. I'd pick anyone over him, Lol even recall chris harris. But since Franklin is bracewell's love child he will keep getting picked in odi's forever :sleep:
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
James franklin.. - Odi bowlingaverage 37, economy 5.11

Andre Adams- Odi bowling average 31, economy rate 5.22

That actually shows Adams to be a better odi bowler by a bit.. ok those stats were probably helped a bit by by the 2003 indian series on those pitches so overall I'd say theres nothing between them but Franklin gets too much respect as an odi player, with the bat Adams is better in odi's- look at that strike rate and I'd always take Adams over Franklin at the death batting in odi's.

I'm not even saying Adams should be playing odi's, but Franklin should certianly not be anywhere near that odi team. I'd pick anyone over him, Lol even recall chris harris. But since Franklin is bracewell's love child he will keep getting picked in odi's forever :sleep:
Franklins been treated very poorly by Bracewell, he's been kept in the team far too long when bowling poorly yet over the past year I've seen a visible change over how well Franklin has played (average falling below 35 and the economy lowering too) the real key for me is how has this injury (and rumoured change of technique) affected him.
 
Yeah right! getting slected every time despite bowling horribly is being treated poorly lol. He has been the luckiest player in our odi history with the amount of matches he has got play despite being worse than just average in his performances.
Yes he has improved a little bit in odi's but its not as if his injury is as big a loss as everyone is saying for odi's.
He may be missed in tests because he can score runs vs good attacks in test cricket and his bolwing record is pretty good.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Yeah right! getting slected every time despite bowling horribly is being treated poorly lol. He has been the luckiest player in our odi history with the amount of matches he has got play despite being worse than just average in his performances.
Yes he has improved a little bit in odi's but its not as if his injury is as big a loss as everyone is saying for odi's.
He may be missed in tests because he can score runs vs good attacks in test cricket and his bolwing record is pretty good.
Being embarrassed is being treated poorly for me, not allowed to find form. Just constantly thrown out to the grinder.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
De Wet is probably one of the quickest bowlers in South African cricket; his capable of speeds well over 145kph and his got a really nice high arm action.

Although, physically his not the most impressive (rather scrawny individual) Friedel’s got his admirers. Ray White is big on him whilst Kepler Wessels, who coached in Australia earlier this year, reported back with favourable words. Only concern apparent with De Wet was the claim that his not effective with the old ball and could be made redundant on flat wickets or abroad.

Tsotsobe is aesthetically the polar opposite of De Wet. Lonwabo’s a big unit (as is his sister who captains the Springbok women), generates good bounce, can now bowl at lively pace (135kph+) and probably the most promising facet of his game is that he can swing the ball both ways, has an in-swinging that can comeback miles.

Cheers

SA look to have a lot of talented youngish quicks (Morkel really looks the goods to me as well)

If they could find another decent young bat or two plus a spinner, the future would be very rosy
 

Flem274*

123/5
When will people kearn? Middle order players harldy ever succeed as openers. If McCullum, Fleming, Fulton and whoever open I can almost guarantee you they will fail and be as miserably incompetent as the other middle order players we have tried opening. Psxpro, do you not remember Cumming vs sri Lanka? He is not completely useless. People are throwing the kitchen sink, toilet and the rest at our openers when most of the team have been pretty pathetic. Cumming, whilst not the next Donald Bradman, will average around 33-35 in tests if he knuckles down and isn't screwed around with like Brendan McCullum has been. In fact if McCullum opens then I will take that as a sign that Bracewell was born with a brain deformity. Whilst Braces may have unothodox selections, he knows McCullum is no test opener. I hope.

Why is Franklin better than Adams? Because he is far more dangerous with the ball thats why. With Adams you know you can put him out of the park no problem. With Franklin you know that it may just be his lucky day, especially with conditions in his favour. But you are right, both should be no where near the ODI team ATM.
 

pup11

International Coach
I can't understand why Bracewell is still the coach of New Zealand :confused1 John wright would have been a much better choice and he in tandem with Vettori would have helped the blackcaps rebuild in a much better way, but atm the blackcaps look all at sea they first need to settle things in their team and pick the right players for every role, they need to show faith in a bunch of players and give them a fair run because constant chopping and changing with the batting line-up or with the team won't help them much.
 

Flem274*

123/5
I can't understand why Bracewell is still the coach of New Zealand :confused1 John wright would have been a much better choice and he in tandem with Vettori would have helped the blackcaps rebuild in a much better way, but atm the blackcaps look all at sea they first need to settle things in their team and pick the right players for every role, they need to show faith in a bunch of players and give them a fair run because constant chopping and changing with the batting line-up or with the team won't help them much.
Well said.

Personally I think it was a crazy descision to reappoint Braces as well. You can drag up his win percentages in ODIs as much as you like (off memory they were quite reasonable) but our test ranking sucks and he didn't help the ODI team much by selecting the Marshalls constantly, McCullum opening etc
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Well said.

Personally I think it was a crazy descision to reappoint Braces as well. You can drag up his win percentages in ODIs as much as you like (off memory they were quite reasonable) but our test ranking sucks and he didn't help the ODI team much by selecting the Marshalls constantly, McCullum opening etc
Hamish was decent for a while and his fielding was definitely among the best in the world. Not to bothered by his place in the team, at least at first.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Hamish was decent for a while and his fielding was definitely among the best in the world. Not to bothered by his place in the team, at least at first.
I actualt though he could be a hell of a player if he was put back into domestic cricket and worked on his game. I hear he only had throwdowns, no net sessions. Get him in a net, bowl Bond at him and prehaps go through his technique a bit too in case there are some glaring weaknesses (Cue Heath saying "You mean weaknesses as in he couldn't bat for ****?")

He always had the talentto succeed, he just didn't apply himself.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
I actualt though he could be a hell of a player if he was put back into domestic cricket and worked on his game. I hear he only had throwdowns, no net sessions. Get him in a net, bowl Bond at him and prehaps go through his technique a bit too in case there are some glaring weaknesses (Cue Heath saying "You mean weaknesses as in he couldn't bat for ****?")

He always had the talentto succeed, he just didn't apply himself.
And the novelty of having identical twin players was always a pleasure.

2,500 up
 

pup11

International Coach
Can Hamish marshall play for New Zealand ever again??
Personally i won't even like to see him anywhere around the New Zealand cricket team since he already said that he would be paid more while playing county cricket when compared to playing cricket for New Zealand, now that's a pathetic thing to do he choose money over playing for his national cricket team and for that he should never ever be selected to play for his country.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Well said.

Personally I think it was a crazy descision to reappoint Braces as well. You can drag up his win percentages in ODIs as much as you like (off memory they were quite reasonable) but our test ranking sucks and he didn't help the ODI team much by selecting the Marshalls constantly, McCullum opening etc
To be fair to Braces (ducks), he did take control of the side just as a number of our best players either retired or fell hopelessly out of form. Cairns and Richardson were gone within a year of his appointment. Tuffee succombed to an injury and form slump from which he will probably never recover. Bond has been absent for long stretches. McMillan and Astle, our traditional middle order pair, both startled to struggle with their form in the longer game, and subsequently retired.

Not saying that he's been an excellent coach, or that he hasn't made some stupid selections. But merely pointing fact that before attacking him for his record in charge of the test team, one has to recognise that he has been presiding over what is basically a side in decline.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
When will people kearn? Middle order players harldy ever succeed as openers. If McCullum, Fleming, Fulton and whoever open I can almost guarantee you they will fail and be as miserably incompetent as the other middle order players we have tried opening.
And, worse, it's a waste of someone who could do well - very well - in their proper position. If you sacrifice someone as an opener, you might as well sacrifice someone who at least won't do anything batting somewhere else.
 

Chubb

International Regular
I'm fed up with John Bracewell and his crackpot ideas. We need a proper coach who has a firm grasp of cricketing logic and not a bunch of fuzzy wacko theories about what constitutes a good Test side. He is a good one-day coach but when he coached Gloucs they were **** in four-day cricket and it is just the same now. I just wish the majority of New Zealanders cared more about tests than ODIs. I mean lets face it we are likely to get absolutely destroyed in this test series, and the home one against England. I hope they prove me wrong but I doubt they will.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Can Hamish marshall play for New Zealand ever again??
Personally i won't even like to see him anywhere around the New Zealand cricket team since he already said that he would be paid more while playing county cricket when compared to playing cricket for New Zealand, now that's a pathetic thing to do he choose money over playing for his national cricket team and for that he should never ever be selected to play for his country.
Cricketers don't get paid an awful lot of money you know, especially since their careers aren't all that long either. I have every sympathy with someone who would choose money over playing for their country. It's hardly 'pathetic' to think about your financial future.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm fed up with John Bracewell and his crackpot ideas. We need a proper coach who has a firm grasp of cricketing logic and not a bunch of fuzzy wacko theories about what constitutes a good Test side. He is a good one-day coach but when he coached Gloucs they were **** in four-day cricket and it is just the same now. I just wish the majority of New Zealanders cared more about tests than ODIs. I mean lets face it we are likely to get absolutely destroyed in this test series, and the home one against England. I hope they prove me wrong but I doubt they will.
Never knew you were a Kiwi. :unsure:
 
When will people kearn? Middle order players harldy ever succeed as openers. If McCullum, Fleming, Fulton and whoever open I can almost guarantee you they will fail and be as miserably incompetent as the other middle order players we have tried opening. Psxpro, do you not remember Cumming vs sri Lanka? He is not completely useless.
Fleming has been tried opening before and done a hell of a lot better than papps/cumming and would continue to do so if he was kept there. Mccullum, the only time he was given the no 3 spot in test played a great knock vs a quality attack- papps and cumming will never play an innings like that. Papps if he settles in may average 33-35, maybe even more.
But not cumming. And in the rare occassion that both of our openers do well we will be batting at 2 runs an over, put pressure on the middle order to increase rate if we want to force a test win and fail again.

I don't think cumming is completely useless or he wouldn't have made it this far, but I just don't think he is a test class opener by today's standards. I hope he proves me wrong this season.

Its a real shame jesse Ryder has attitude problems because his domestic first class record sh*ts on most of the top order batsmen we have
 

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