***Official*** New Zealand in South Africa

[NZTailender]

I'm really hoping Taylor makes 100 if he makes a debut. I can see him being our best batsman since Fleming (or Crowe). He has the natural talent and an 'x' factor that puts him up there already for mine. I think he can be a more accomplished Craig McMillan.

I would also like to see Neil Broom come into the side soon enough. He seems like a solid player and could play a good middle order role for us. He should be slowly introduced into the Black Caps now Astle, McMillan and Fleming have retired from ODI's, aiming to get him into the test side as Fleming's replacement soon after that.

 

[Richard]

I'm really hoping Taylor makes 100 if he makes a debut. I can see him being our best batsman since Fleming (or Crowe). He has the natural talent and an 'x' factor that puts him up there already for mine. I think he can be a more accomplished Craig McMillan.

TBH, I can quite see him being an equally unaccomplished Craig McMillan.

But things can change - I always hoped they would with McMillan, for instance.

 

[NZTailender]

1. Vincent
2. Fulton
3. Taylor
4. Styris
5. Broom
6. Oram
7. McCullum+
8. Vettori*
9. Franklin
10. Mills/Patel (wicket depending)
11. Bond

Fulton has done alright opening in ODI's and I think he could have a good career there. His style opposes Vincent's well and a real long term partnership could develop there if given the chance. Taylor has the talent to be a number 3 and IMO he's just what we need in that position, rather than trying to use Styris or another player suited to the lower-middle order who can play a different sort of innings. Ultimately I think Broom would shuffle up to 4 and Styris down to 5 or out completely with retirement. Would make a good ODI side.

IMO.

 

[Athlai]

1. Vincent
2. Fulton
3. Taylor
4. Styris
5. Broom
6. Oram
7. McCullum+
8. Vettori*
9. Franklin
10. Mills/Patel (wicket depending)
11. Bond

Fulton has done alright opening in ODI's and I think he could have a good career there. His style opposes Vincent's well and a real long term partnership could develop there if given the chance. Taylor has the talent to be a number 3 and IMO he's just what we need in that position, rather than trying to use Styris or another player suited to the lower-middle order who can play a different sort of innings. Ultimately I think Broom would shuffle up to 4 and Styris down to 5 or out completely with retirement. Would make a good ODI side.

IMO.

Still feel Fulton would be more valuable not opening but I guess we don't really have any better options.

 

[NZTailender]

TBH, I can quite see him being an equally unaccomplished Craig McMillan.

But things can change - I always hoped they would with McMillan, for instance.

It all depends on schedule to me, actually. Taylor needs to play a lot of tests to show what he can do. I don't think playing 7 ODI's for every 1 test will help him.

 

[NZTailender]

Still feel Fulton would be more valuable not opening but I guess we don't really have any better options.

I think Taylor is the better ODI #3 plain and simple, while he's definitely better at building an innings rather than a late order bash (though we have seen him do it once vs Australia).

 

[Athlai]

I think Taylor is the better ODI #3 plain and simple, while he's definitely better at building an innings rather than a late order bash (though we have seen him do it once vs Australia).

Ideal #4 for me.

 

[NZTailender]

Ideal #4 for me.

For tests yes IMO. Top 3 in ODI's.

 

[Athlai]

For tests yes IMO. Top 3 in ODI's.

With our top order I'd rather him as a safety net at 4, Taylor has the flair to succeed, but I think he's going to be a consistent high score or no score sort of player. Either he's in or he's out with no in betweens, Vincent's not reliable (though probably our best option) and Fulton opening is exposing us to the loss of an early wicket we will really miss.

 

[NZTailender]

So I guess your solution would be Papps? I could see that

1. Vincent
2. Papps
3. Taylor
4. Fulton
5. Styris
6. Oram

With Broom to replace Styris when he retires. Awesome.


Hope you're reading this, NZC.

 

[Athlai]

With Broom to replace Styris when he retires. Awesome.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Richard]

Who is this Neil Broom?

I mean, Jay Koboram is the new Chris Cairns; Ross Taylor's obviously the new Roger Twose (though I thought Lou Vincent was for a time ); Michael Papps seems to me like the latest Matthew Horne; Brendon McCullum is the new Adam Parore; James Franklin the new and mirror-imaged Geoff Allott; Shane Bond the new Simon Doull; the list goes on.

We need a new Nathan Astle and a new Craig McMillan TBH.

 

[TT Boy]

Anyone know anything about de Wet and Tsotsobe?

De Wet is probably one of the quickest bowlers in South African cricket; his capable of speeds well over 145kph and his got a really nice high arm action.

Although, physically his not the most impressive (rather scrawny individual) Friedel’s got his admirers. Ray White is big on him whilst Kepler Wessels, who coached in Australia earlier this year, reported back with favourable words. Only concern apparent with De Wet was the claim that his not effective with the old ball and could be made redundant on flat wickets or abroad.

Tsotsobe is aesthetically the polar opposite of De Wet. Lonwabo’s a big unit (as is his sister who captains the Springbok women), generates good bounce, can now bowl at lively pace (135kph+) and probably the most promising facet of his game is that he can swing the ball both ways, has an in-swinging that can comeback miles.

 

[kiwipostereborn]

I can't believe some of the safety first selections some of you guys want. Papps to play odi's? , and whats wrong with taylor at 3 in odi's, just because he is aggressive he should bat at 4? Most of the best 3's are aggressive batsmen. As for papps, first of all he doesn't score quick enough when he does survive and if he gets past the first 15 overs he won't rotate the strike enough. Our odi performances under bracewell have been VERY good- we don't need to pick a slow run scoring opener.

Its bad enough having papps and cumming opening in tests..Seriously whats the worst that could happen if we opened with Fleming and mccullum or fleming and even papps. I don't care about specialist positions when our specialist openers just aren't good enough. I have no doubt that both Fleming and mccullum would do a better job opening a season in test cricket than cumming would. Ok papps deserves another shot in test cricket, but cumming is really going to struggle vs good quality bowlers. I hope he does well but I really have my doubts.

For the odi side its a shame mills got injured before the world cup and now as well, he was superb for the 18 months before.
And all the people even suggesting franklin is a good bowler , even give me andre adams over him in odi's. Franklin may look good at times but his odi record is truly shocking, we wont miss him in odi series at all.
His test record so far is good so we may miss him there but I still think he is only really effective vs the lesser teams and won't be as good a long term bowler for us as many are predicting, his batting is good though for a 8/9.

 

[TT Boy]

My team for first test (assuming everyone in the squad is fit).

Papps (not a fan of this opening partnership at all but bracewell already said they would be picked)
Cumming
Fleming
Taylor
Styris
Oram
Mccullum
Vettori
Bond
Gillespie
Martin

I'm really excited even though I don't give us a great chance of winning since we are playing the 2nd best team in the world in their own backyard with a top order thats likely to fail as usual.

Would not write New Zealand of just yet. The weather in Jo’Burg is awful and someone may win a very important toss come Thursday. South Africa also come into the game clear favourites and if they are overconfident of a formality than New Zealand will bite them in ass like the Indians did last year but this time South Africa won't have the chance of come backing (to win).

 

[Athlai]

I can't believe some of the safety first selections some of you guys want. Papps to play odi's? , and whats wrong with taylor at 3 in odi's, just because he is aggressive he should bat at 4? Most of the best 3's are aggressive batsmen. As for papps, first of all he doesn't score quick enough when he does survive and if he gets past the first 15 overs he won't rotate the strike enough. Our odi performances under bracewell have been VERY good- we don't need to pick a slow run scoring opener.

Our main problem in ODI's has been the fact after 10 overs we are usually >60 / <1 and this is unacceptable if we are trying to use a fast scoring combination. Vincent will be in the side for faster scoring, while we have a Papps' (or another player, our openers in NZ are rather poor to begin with) to keep their wicket. I would take 40/0 over 60/2 after ten overs anyday.

Its bad enough having papps and cumming opening in tests..Seriously whats the worst that could happen if we opened with Fleming and mccullum or fleming and even papps. I don't care about specialist positions when our specialist openers just aren't good enough. I have no doubt that both Fleming and mccullum would do a better job opening a season in test cricket than cumming would. Ok papps deserves another shot in test cricket, but cumming is really going to struggle vs good quality bowlers. I hope he does well but I really have my doubts.

McCullum is one of the best tail end batsman we have produced for a long while and bringing him up the order in test cricket is a disaster waiting to happen. While in the shorter forms of the game there may be a case for it (particularly T20) it is most certainly a no go in tests, I'd much rather him build partnerships around the tail than watch him fall after a brisk 20 at the start of a test.

Fleming on the other hand should play in his best position yet is probably a better opening bet than anyone else in the side besides the openers. Yet it's not like the team has many other better options, worth giving Cumming a shot.
Papps
Cumming/Fleming/Vincent(sorry Vincent open or your not in the team)

And all the people even suggesting franklin is a good bowler , even give me andre adams over him in odi's. Franklin may look good at times but his odi record is truly shocking, we wont miss him in odi series at all.

Reason 1 why Franklin is preferable over Adams: Franklin is better with the new ball.
Reason 2: Franklin is younger.
Reason 3: Franklin can swing it a mile when the conditions suit him.
Reason 4: Adams gets slaughtered for his lack of variety on the international stage.
Reason 5: Franklin's developing batting edges Adams admittedly decent enough skills.


And as rough as it has seemed in the last year or so, Franklin has bowled better than both Mason and Gillespie in the past season. The key factor in this is that Franklin has the potential to be just as successful in ODI's as he is in test's shown well during the WC when in the times where Bond failed he bowled beautifully from the other end.

Now while holding out just because of potential is too dangerous in most countries, even his average enough skills are still better than our next seamers.

His test record so far is good so we may miss him there but I still think he is only really effective vs the lesser teams and won't be as good a long term bowler for us as many are predicting, his batting is good though for a 8/9.

Averages 25.60 against SA and has a SR of 36.6, we'll miss him.

 

[Prince EWS]

Our main problem in ODI's has been the fact after 10 overs we are usually >60 / <1

Haha, not a bad problem if you ask me.

I think you have you greater thans and less thans mixed up.

 

[kiwipostereborn]

Would not write New Zealand of just yet. The weather in Jo’Burg is awful and someone may win a very important toss come Thursday. South Africa also come into the game clear favourites and if they are overconfident of a formality than New Zealand will bite them in ass like the Indians did last year but this time South Africa won't have the chance of come backing (to win).

If it seams around it may favour our bowlers but our batsmen will struggle more than the South African ones. I'm not writing us off, I'm a positive person but realistically Sa are hot favs to win this match and series.

 

[kiwipostereborn]

Athlai, the thing is with papps- you can't guarantee we will be 40/0, I know I'd take 60/2 over 40/2 anyday.
I know papps has acutally done well in the odi's he has played but in the long run his batting is too slow.

Mccullum has under achieved with the bat at tests- he does what you say anyway most of time vs good bowling line ups he will just score a good looking 20 or 30 and get out. I'd he do it as an opener or no3, why would it be a disaster? didn't you see how well he handled the excellent england bowlers at no 3 in lords 04? He would certianly be better than craig cumming, I know that.

And vincent is better as a middle order bat in tests, how showed that when he came back but was mysteriously dropped, i dont like him as an opener in tests but still would be a better choice than cumming.

You talk about Adams getting slaughtered but take a look at the odi stats and it shows Adams>> Franklin. i'm sick of people talking about how good franklin looked in one or 2 games when overall his odi record is probably the worst of any bowler who has played a reasonable number of games. People have been making excuses for him since 2004 when he bowled really well in one natwest game vs wi I think and keep talking about his potential . But stuff that, he has had plenty of chances in odi's and shown he is rubbish at it. Those are the facts, he turns in good performances and then backs it up with 3 or 4 shocking ones.

 

[Athlai]

Haha, not a bad problem if you ask me.

I think you have you greater thans and less thans mixed up.

Ah bugger your right.