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Who will win this battle of champs?

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I'd say that the WI ability to play quality spin is superior than someone like Hayden's ability to play quality pace.
If Hayden can play Wasim, McGrath, Donald and Pollock, I think he can pretty much play anybody. Whereas the Windies batsmen did not face a spinner as good as Warne.
 
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nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Stats yes, stature no.

The same with the latter comparison. Stats-wise, Gillespie is comparable, stature-wise no.

I know what you are saying, but you're trying to make the difference, which is small, essentially mean and decide the match? IMO, it just won't do it.
I don't get this. If Gillespie is not comparable to Holding, Garner and Roberts stature wise, how is the difference between them small? Contradicting yourself it would seem.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I don't get this. If Gillespie is not comparable to Holding, Garner and Roberts stature wise, how is the difference between them small? Contradicting yourself it would seem.
Why? The thing with the Windies is that they were all almost equal partners in a great attack whereas Gillespie clearly came after Warne and McGrath. For that, he does not have the same stature or is recognised in the same light, but his numbers speak for himself.

The thing is, yeah, most times Gillespie isn't going to perform as good as Holding or Roberts, but there are a fair few times he will and the difference between the two sides - victory or defeat - is not going to be split on if Gillespie performs better than them or not. All he has to do is take a wicket here or there. McGrath and Warne are enough to do most of the work. The Aussie attack doesn't need to come in equal parts the way the Windies are accustomed to.

If it's about keeping pressure, he can surely do that. If it is about taking wickets, he can clearly do that. If it is about being economical, very capable too. Essentially, what I am saying is that the match will not hinge on whether Gillespie is a couple runs more expensive than some of the Windies pacers or a few bowls slower.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Gillespie 26.13 S/R of 54.9
Warne 25.41 S/R of 57.4
McGrath 21.64 S/R of 51.9
Lee 31.60 S/R of 53.1

Average
26.195 with a S/R of 54.325
262/10 from 90.3 overs


Holding 23.68 S/R of 50.9
Garner 20.97 S/R of 50.8
Roberts 25.61 S/R of 55.1
Marshall 20.94 S/R of 46.7

Average
22.8 with a S/R of 50.875
228/10 from 84.5 overs
 

nightprowler10

Global Moderator
Why? The thing with the Windies is that they were all almost equal partners in a great attack whereas Gillespie clearly came after Warne and McGrath. For that, he does not have the same stature or is recognised in the same light, but his numbers speak for himself.
I don't have time to prove it right now, but his stats are rather misleading if you look at them close enough. But thats not really relevant to this discussion anyway.

The thing is, yeah, most times Gillespie isn't going to perform as good as Holding or Roberts, but there are a fair few times he will and the difference between the two sides - victory or defeat - is not going to be split on if Gillespie performs better than them or not. All he has to do is take a wicket here or there. McGrath and Warne are enough to do most of the work. The Aussie attack doesn't need to come in equal parts the way the Windies are accustomed to.

If it's about keeping pressure, he can surely do that. If it is about taking wickets, he can clearly do that. If it is about being economical, very capable too. Essentially, what I am saying is that the match will not hinge on whether Gillespie is a couple runs more expensive than some of the Windies pacers or a few bowls slower.
See, what you posted at first made it seem that you were implying that Gillespie is similar to the three bowlers I had mentioned, when you are really saying that Gillespie's performance would have the same affect on the match as the bowling trio. Right?

If that is the case, then I still disagree. I don't think McGrath and Warne would inflict enough damage on that WI lineup to the point that Gillespie wouldn't have to do very well. Dazza rarely had to perform well for Australia to win because the batting attacks were seldom strong and good enough to with hold those two in the first place. This WI batting is capable of easily taking apart McGrath and Warne at times and Gillespie would definitely have to perform superbly for Australia to do well in those times. The Australian bowling would have to bowl in tandem the way the WI attack used to.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Gillespie 26.13 S/R of 54.9
Warne 25.41 S/R of 57.4
McGrath 21.64 S/R of 51.9
Lee 31.60 S/R of 53.1

Average
26.195 with a S/R of 54.325
262/10 from 90.3 overs


Holding 23.68 S/R of 50.9
Garner 20.97 S/R of 50.8
Roberts 25.61 S/R of 55.1
Marshall 20.94 S/R of 46.7

Average
22.8 with a S/R of 50.875


228/10 from 84.5 overs
West Indies:

Greenidge: 44.72
Haynes: 42.29
Richards: 50.23
Lloyd: 46.67
Gomes: 39.63
Richardson: 44.39
Dujon: 31.94
Marshall: 18.85
Holding: 13.78
Garner: 12.44
Roberts: 14.94

Total: 359.88

Australia

Hayden: 53.00
Langer: 45.27
Ponting: 59.29
M.Waugh: 41.82
Martyn: 46.37
S.Waugh: 51.06
Gilchrist: 48.66
Warne: 17.32
Lee: 21.11
Gillespie: 18.73
McGrath: 7.36

Total: 409.99

Which is why you shouldn't use this argument...:laugh:
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
See, what you posted at first made it seem that you were implying that Gillespie is similar to the three bowlers I had mentioned, when you are really saying that Gillespie's performance would have the same affect on the match as the bowling trio. Right?

If that is the case, then I still disagree. I don't think McGrath and Warne would inflict enough damage on that WI lineup to the point that Gillespie wouldn't have to do very well. Dazza rarely had to perform well for Australia to win because the batting attacks were seldom strong and good enough to with hold those two in the first place. This WI batting is capable of easily taking apart McGrath and Warne at times and Gillespie would definitely have to perform superbly for Australia to do well in those times. The Australian bowling would have to bowl in tandem the way the WI attack used to.
No, what I am saying is that the role Gillespie has to play in the squad means he doesn't need to be as good as one of the other trio. Even being a bit worse is fine, it won't sway the match alone because the difference between them isn't that large.

Think about it in this simple way:

Marshall V McGrath - No winner. 0 Equal
Warne V Whoever else - Warne. +1 Australia
Gillespie V Whoever else - Whoever else -1 Equal.

That's what I mean when I say that at the least those 3 are equal to any of the Windies 3. And, in my own opinion, I'd still pick the Aussie line-up. More rounded attack and it has spin bowling. A great opener, a great supporting pace bowler and a great spinner. You don't need much else.

Bowling is different to batting. You'll get no more than 10 wickets an innings and not everyone has to bowl, or has to bowl the same amount, and they don't all have to bowl the same way and do the same thing.
 
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Shaggy Alfresco

State Captain
I remember simming a series like this quite a while ago on cricsim. I'll dig up the results of the first test.

Code:
2001 AUSTRALIA VS 1980 WEST INDIES at Sabina Park
5 day match
Pitch Condition: Excellent
 
1980 WEST INDIES WON THE TOSS AND ELECTED TO BOWL FIRST
  
                                     -X-
   
2001 AUSTRALIA 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden                     b. Holding     123   139   29    0   88.5%
Justin Langer       c. Greenidge   b. Holding      37    45    7    1   82.2%
Ricky Ponting       lbw            b. Marshall     93   122   21    0   76.2%
Mark Waugh          c. Garner      b. Marshall    101   145   19    0   69.7%
Steve Waugh         c. Garner      b. Roberts      45   101    9    0   44.6%
Damien Martyn       c. Kalli'rran  b. Garner       56   114   10    0   49.1%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Holding      18    16    4    0  112.5%
Brett Lee           lbw            b. Garner       12     8    3    0  150.0%
Shane Warne         c. Garner      b. Roberts      18    43    4    0   41.9%
Jason Gillespie     lbw            b. Roberts       0     4    0    0    0.0%
Glenn McGrath       not out                         6    17    1    0   35.3%
 
 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19     Extras:  15 
   
                             Day 2  1:10 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                  94 (106)
M Hayden      R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      135 (163)
M Waugh       R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           58 (71)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              107 (192)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþ                                      18 (30)
Gilchrist     D Martyn     þþþþþþ                                    25 (34)
B Lee         D Martyn     þþþ                                       13 (10)
S Warne       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþ                             52 (104)
Gillespie     D Martyn                                                0 (4)
G McGrath     D Martyn     þþþþþ                                     22 (37)


     Fall of Wickets    94/1      229/2     287/3     394/4     412/5
                        437/6     450/7     502/8     502/9     524/10    

 Total:  524/10      Overs:  125.1         Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          24.1      4     113      2      4.68     1      1 
Malcolm Marshall     32.0      4     145      2      4.53     0      1 
Andy Roberts         27.0      8     100      3      3.70     0      0 
Michael Holding      31.0      7     107      3      3.45     2      1 
Viv Richards          6.0      1      36      0      6.00     0      0 
Alvin Kallicharran    5.0      2      14      0      2.80     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 3      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 8      Byes: 1 

 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Langer      b. Gillespie     1     5    0    0   20.0%
Desmond Haynes      lbw            b. Lee          70   112   12    0   62.5%
Viv Richards        lbw            b. Lee          51    59    8    1   86.4%
Faoud Bacchus       c. Hayden      b. Gillespie    53   165    9    1   32.1%
Alvin Kallicharran                 b. Lee         105   168   21    0   62.5%
Clive Lloyd                        b. Gillespie   137   166   26    1   82.5%
Deryck Murray                      b. Gillespie     4     6    1    0   66.7%
Malcolm Marshall    c. Martyn      b. Warne        16    45    3    0   35.6%
Michael Holding     lbw            b. Lee          21    37    4    0   56.8%
Andy Roberts        c. Lee         b. Warne        25    54    5    0   46.3%
Joel Garner         not out                         3    16    0    0   18.8%
 
 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59     Extras:  13 
   
                             Day 3  4:55 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þ                                          1 (7)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    82 (108)
F Bacchus     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           56 (143)
F Bacchus     Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         116 (194)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      125 (160)
C Lloyd       D Murray     þþ                                         8 (11)
C Lloyd       M Marshall   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                          60 (100)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþ                                         4 (6)
M Holding     A Roberts    þþþþþþþþ                                  32 (66)
J Garner      A Roberts    þþþþ                                      15 (38)


     Fall of Wickets    1/1       83/2      139/3     255/4     380/5
                        388/6     448/7     452/8     484/9     499/10    

 Total:  499/10      Overs:  138.5         Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        28.0      4      99      0      3.54     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      37.0      7     117      4      3.16     0      0 
Brett Lee            32.0      7     115      4      3.59     0      3 
Shane Warne          30.5      6     110      2      3.57     0      2 
Ricky Ponting         3.0      0      29      0      9.67     0      0 
Mark Waugh            8.0      3      22      0      2.75     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 6      Leg Byes: 7      Byes: 0 

 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
                                     -X-
 
 
2001 AUSTRALIA 2nd innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden      c. Roberts     b. Marshall     15    11    3    0  136.4%
Justin Langer       c. Bacchus     b. Holding      46    94    8    0   48.9%
Ricky Ponting                      b. Marshall     28    52    5    0   53.8%
Mark Waugh          not out                       100   142   19    0   70.4%
Steve Waugh         c. Bacchus     b. Garner       19    34    4    0   55.9%
Damien Martyn       c. Haynes      b. Garner       22    22    5    0  100.0%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Garner        0     5    0    0    0.0%
Brett Lee                          b. Marshall      0     4    0    0    0.0%
Shane Warne         c. Murray      b. Kalli'rran   24    31    5    0   77.4%
Jason Gillespie                    b. Garner       13    57    2    0   22.8%
Glenn McGrath       lbw            b. Garner        0     7    0    0    0.0%
 
 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60     Extras:  8 
   
                             Day 4  4:01 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
R Ponting     J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         77 (139)
M Waugh       J Langer     þþþþ                                      10 (19)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (56)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           35 (48)
M Waugh       Gilchrist    þþþþþ                                     12 (11)
M Waugh       B Lee        þ                                          3 (8)
M Waugh       S Warne      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                            32 (44)
M Waugh       Gillespie    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    51 (108)
M Waugh       G McGrath                                               0 (13)


     Fall of Wickets    15/1      92/2      102/3     142/4     177/5
                        189/6     192/7     224/8     275/9     275/10    

 Total:  275/10      Overs:  76.2          Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          19.2      5      74      5      3.83     1      0 
Malcolm Marshall     18.0      0      73      3      4.06     0      1 
Michael Holding      15.0      5      41      1      2.73     0      0 
Andy Roberts         16.0      1      57      0      3.56     0      1 
Alvin Kallicharran    7.0      0      26      1      3.71     0      1 
Viv Richards          1.0      1       0      0      0.00     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 1      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 4      Byes: 0 

 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 2nd innings  (Target: 301)

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Lee         b. Gillespie    21    28    5    0   75.0%
Desmond Haynes      c. Warne       b. Gillespie    60    60   13    1  100.0%
Viv Richards        c. Gilchrist   b. Gillespie    70    64   12    2  109.4%
Faoud Bacchus                      b. Lee          15    37    2    0   40.5%
Alvin Kallicharran  c. Gilchrist   b. Warne        48    37    9    1  129.7%
Clive Lloyd         lbw            b. Warne        15    23    2    1   65.2%
Deryck Murray                      b. M Waugh       6    33    0    0   18.2%
Malcolm Marshall    not out                        22    80    4    0   27.5%
Michael Holding                    b. Gillespie    14    28    3    0   50.0%
Andy Roberts                       b. Warne         4     6    1    0   66.7%
Joel Garner         c. Hayden      b. Lee           5    14    1    0   35.7%
 
 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23     Extras:  9 
   
                             Day 5  2:04 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                     49 (46)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              64 (68)
V Richards    F Bacchus    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                      47 (66)
V Richards    Kalli'rran   þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (47)
D Murray      Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (20)
D Murray      M Marshall   þþþþþ                                     12 (55)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (53)
A Roberts     M Marshall   þþ                                         5 (10)
J Garner      M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (33)


     Fall of Wickets    49/1      113/2     160/3     175/4     215/5
                        234/6     246/7     265/8     270/9     289/10    

 Total:  289/10      Overs:  68.2          Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        14.0      2      63      0      4.50     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      14.0      2      62      4      4.43     0      0 
Brett Lee            16.2      4      57      2      3.49     0      1 
Shane Warne          19.0      3      85      3      4.47     0      1 
Mark Waugh            5.0      3      16      1      3.20     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 2      Byes: 4 

 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
                                     -X-
 
 
  
 
2001 Australia      524 & 275
1980 West Indies    499 & 289
   
2001 Australia won by 11 runs
  
Man of the match: Mark Waugh
Hrm.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I remember simming a series like this quite a while ago on cricsim. I'll dig up the results of the first test.

Code:
2001 AUSTRALIA VS 1980 WEST INDIES at Sabina Park
5 day match
Pitch Condition: Excellent
 
1980 WEST INDIES WON THE TOSS AND ELECTED TO BOWL FIRST
  
                                     -X-
   
2001 AUSTRALIA 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden                     b. Holding     123   139   29    0   88.5%
Justin Langer       c. Greenidge   b. Holding      37    45    7    1   82.2%
Ricky Ponting       lbw            b. Marshall     93   122   21    0   76.2%
Mark Waugh          c. Garner      b. Marshall    101   145   19    0   69.7%
Steve Waugh         c. Garner      b. Roberts      45   101    9    0   44.6%
Damien Martyn       c. Kalli'rran  b. Garner       56   114   10    0   49.1%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Holding      18    16    4    0  112.5%
Brett Lee           lbw            b. Garner       12     8    3    0  150.0%
Shane Warne         c. Garner      b. Roberts      18    43    4    0   41.9%
Jason Gillespie     lbw            b. Roberts       0     4    0    0    0.0%
Glenn McGrath       not out                         6    17    1    0   35.3%
 
 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19     Extras:  15 
   
                             Day 2  1:10 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                  94 (106)
M Hayden      R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      135 (163)
M Waugh       R Ponting    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           58 (71)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              107 (192)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþ                                      18 (30)
Gilchrist     D Martyn     þþþþþþ                                    25 (34)
B Lee         D Martyn     þþþ                                       13 (10)
S Warne       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþ                             52 (104)
Gillespie     D Martyn                                                0 (4)
G McGrath     D Martyn     þþþþþ                                     22 (37)


     Fall of Wickets    94/1      229/2     287/3     394/4     412/5
                        437/6     450/7     502/8     502/9     524/10    

 Total:  524/10      Overs:  125.1         Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          24.1      4     113      2      4.68     1      1 
Malcolm Marshall     32.0      4     145      2      4.53     0      1 
Andy Roberts         27.0      8     100      3      3.70     0      0 
Michael Holding      31.0      7     107      3      3.45     2      1 
Viv Richards          6.0      1      36      0      6.00     0      0 
Alvin Kallicharran    5.0      2      14      0      2.80     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 3      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 8      Byes: 1 

 Total:  524/10       Overs:  125.1        Run Rate:  4.19    Extras:  15   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Langer      b. Gillespie     1     5    0    0   20.0%
Desmond Haynes      lbw            b. Lee          70   112   12    0   62.5%
Viv Richards        lbw            b. Lee          51    59    8    1   86.4%
Faoud Bacchus       c. Hayden      b. Gillespie    53   165    9    1   32.1%
Alvin Kallicharran                 b. Lee         105   168   21    0   62.5%
Clive Lloyd                        b. Gillespie   137   166   26    1   82.5%
Deryck Murray                      b. Gillespie     4     6    1    0   66.7%
Malcolm Marshall    c. Martyn      b. Warne        16    45    3    0   35.6%
Michael Holding     lbw            b. Lee          21    37    4    0   56.8%
Andy Roberts        c. Lee         b. Warne        25    54    5    0   46.3%
Joel Garner         not out                         3    16    0    0   18.8%
 
 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59     Extras:  13 
   
                             Day 3  4:55 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þ                                          1 (7)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    82 (108)
F Bacchus     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           56 (143)
F Bacchus     Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         116 (194)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      125 (160)
C Lloyd       D Murray     þþ                                         8 (11)
C Lloyd       M Marshall   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                          60 (100)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþ                                         4 (6)
M Holding     A Roberts    þþþþþþþþ                                  32 (66)
J Garner      A Roberts    þþþþ                                      15 (38)


     Fall of Wickets    1/1       83/2      139/3     255/4     380/5
                        388/6     448/7     452/8     484/9     499/10    

 Total:  499/10      Overs:  138.5         Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        28.0      4      99      0      3.54     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      37.0      7     117      4      3.16     0      0 
Brett Lee            32.0      7     115      4      3.59     0      3 
Shane Warne          30.5      6     110      2      3.57     0      2 
Ricky Ponting         3.0      0      29      0      9.67     0      0 
Mark Waugh            8.0      3      22      0      2.75     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 6      Leg Byes: 7      Byes: 0 

 Total:  499/10       Overs:  138.5        Run Rate:  3.59    Extras:  13   
                                     -X-
 
 
2001 AUSTRALIA 2nd innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Matthew Hayden      c. Roberts     b. Marshall     15    11    3    0  136.4%
Justin Langer       c. Bacchus     b. Holding      46    94    8    0   48.9%
Ricky Ponting                      b. Marshall     28    52    5    0   53.8%
Mark Waugh          not out                       100   142   19    0   70.4%
Steve Waugh         c. Bacchus     b. Garner       19    34    4    0   55.9%
Damien Martyn       c. Haynes      b. Garner       22    22    5    0  100.0%
Adam Gilchrist                     b. Garner        0     5    0    0    0.0%
Brett Lee                          b. Marshall      0     4    0    0    0.0%
Shane Warne         c. Murray      b. Kalli'rran   24    31    5    0   77.4%
Jason Gillespie                    b. Garner       13    57    2    0   22.8%
Glenn McGrath       lbw            b. Garner        0     7    0    0    0.0%
 
 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60     Extras:  8 
   
                             Day 4  4:01 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
2001 AUSTRALIA Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
M Hayden      J Langer     þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
R Ponting     J Langer     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ         77 (139)
M Waugh       J Langer     þþþþ                                      10 (19)
M Waugh       S Waugh      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (56)
M Waugh       D Martyn     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           35 (48)
M Waugh       Gilchrist    þþþþþ                                     12 (11)
M Waugh       B Lee        þ                                          3 (8)
M Waugh       S Warne      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                            32 (44)
M Waugh       Gillespie    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                    51 (108)
M Waugh       G McGrath                                               0 (13)


     Fall of Wickets    15/1      92/2      102/3     142/4     177/5
                        189/6     192/7     224/8     275/9     275/10    

 Total:  275/10      Overs:  76.2          Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
  
                                     -X-

1980 WEST INDIES Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Joel Garner          19.2      5      74      5      3.83     1      0 
Malcolm Marshall     18.0      0      73      3      4.06     0      1 
Michael Holding      15.0      5      41      1      2.73     0      0 
Andy Roberts         16.0      1      57      0      3.56     0      1 
Alvin Kallicharran    7.0      0      26      1      3.71     0      1 
Viv Richards          1.0      1       0      0      0.00     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 1      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 4      Byes: 0 

 Total:  275/10       Overs:  76.2         Run Rate:  3.60    Extras:  8   
                                     -X-
 
 
1980 WEST INDIES 2nd innings  (Target: 301)

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Gordon Greenidge    c. Lee         b. Gillespie    21    28    5    0   75.0%
Desmond Haynes      c. Warne       b. Gillespie    60    60   13    1  100.0%
Viv Richards        c. Gilchrist   b. Gillespie    70    64   12    2  109.4%
Faoud Bacchus                      b. Lee          15    37    2    0   40.5%
Alvin Kallicharran  c. Gilchrist   b. Warne        48    37    9    1  129.7%
Clive Lloyd         lbw            b. Warne        15    23    2    1   65.2%
Deryck Murray                      b. M Waugh       6    33    0    0   18.2%
Malcolm Marshall    not out                        22    80    4    0   27.5%
Michael Holding                    b. Gillespie    14    28    3    0   50.0%
Andy Roberts                       b. Warne         4     6    1    0   66.7%
Joel Garner         c. Hayden      b. Lee           5    14    1    0   35.7%
 
 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23     Extras:  9 
   
                             Day 5  2:04 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
1980 WEST INDIES Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
Greenidge     D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                     49 (46)
V Richards    D Haynes     þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ              64 (68)
V Richards    F Bacchus    þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                      47 (66)
V Richards    Kalli'rran   þþþþþþ                                    15 (12)
C Lloyd       Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                         40 (47)
D Murray      Kalli'rran   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (20)
D Murray      M Marshall   þþþþþ                                     12 (55)
M Holding     M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (53)
A Roberts     M Marshall   þþ                                         5 (10)
J Garner      M Marshall   þþþþþþþþ                                  19 (33)


     Fall of Wickets    49/1      113/2     160/3     175/4     215/5
                        234/6     246/7     265/8     270/9     289/10    

 Total:  289/10      Overs:  68.2          Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
  
                                     -X-

2001 AUSTRALIA Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Glenn McGrath        14.0      2      63      0      4.50     0      1 
Jason Gillespie      14.0      2      62      4      4.43     0      0 
Brett Lee            16.2      4      57      2      3.49     0      1 
Shane Warne          19.0      3      85      3      4.47     0      1 
Mark Waugh            5.0      3      16      1      3.20     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 3      Leg Byes: 2      Byes: 4 

 Total:  289/10       Overs:  68.2         Run Rate:  4.23    Extras:  9   
                                     -X-
 
 
  
 
2001 Australia      524 & 275
1980 West Indies    499 & 289
   
2001 Australia won by 11 runs
  
Man of the match: Mark Waugh
Hrm.
LOL, Hayden always seems to do well in these. Gillespie was the best bowler! :laugh:
 

Shaggy Alfresco

State Captain
LOL, Hayden always seems to do well in these. Gillespie was the best bowler! :laugh:
Mainly beacuse you can't take into account Hayden's deficiencies against good quality pace bowling (for example) on these simulators, because you can only input statistics. Hayden has an average of 53, though I can't explain Gillespie being pretty amazing while McGrath is inneffective.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Mainly beacuse you can't take into account Hayden's deficiencies against good quality pace bowling (for example) on these simulators, because you can only input statistics. Hayden has an average of 53, though I can't explain Gillespie being pretty amazing while McGrath is inneffective.
Myth my man, MYTH! But honestly, the crap that goes about with Hayden not being good against quality pace is kinda silly. All good pace bowling takes wickets. Took Gavaskar's wickets; took Bradman's wickets and will continue to take wickets. But yeah, take these Sims as evidence :p.

As for one player being effective and one not...well, why not? Not everyone can be affective and that's kinda the point. Sometimes one player will be, sometimes another will be. The difference between them is not so large that it will always be one-sided.
 

Perm

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
LOL, Hayden always seems to do well in these. Gillespie was the best bowler! :laugh:
Because Hayden has an average of 53, which is pretty high. These sort of simulators don't take into account anything other than average, which is why Hayden prospers.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
And so no bloody argument pops up here's Aussies figures without Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Yes that's right Australia play better when they're not against minnows!


Hayden 50.86
Langer 46
Ponting 58.4
M. Waugh 41.56
Martyn 47.36
S. Waugh 48.97
Gilchrist 47.37
Warne 17.52
Lee 20.92
Gillespie 15.17
McGrath 7.30
Total 401.96
Bowling

Warne 25.41
Lee 30.88
Gillespie 27.46
McGrath 21.69
Average 26.36
263/10
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Has anyone ever tried experimenting with these simulators, like giving every player in one team a batting average of 1000 and every player in the other team an average of 6.
 

Shaggy Alfresco

State Captain
Has anyone ever tried experimenting with these simulators, like giving every player in one team a batting average of 1000 and every player in the other team an average of 6.
Yeah, I have. Created a team of Bradmans with 99 batting average and 1 bowling average and pitted them against a team with 1 batting average and 99 bowling average. The simulator broke so I just played against Bangladesh.

Code:
Date: 11-03-2007
  
ALIENS VS BANGLADESH at Alien Homeworld
5 day match
Pitch Condition: Excellent
 
BANGLADESH WON THE TOSS AND ELECTED TO BOWL FIRST
  
                                     -X-
   
ALIENS 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Alien 1             c. Shahriar    b. Murtaza      25    37    6    0   67.6%
Alien 2             c. Imran       b. Murtaza     328   417   75    1   78.7%
Alien 3             c. Shahriar    b. Murtaza      17    52    4    0   32.7%
Alien 4                            b. Islam       235   301   50    2   78.1%
Alien 5                            b. Murtaza      13    32    3    0   40.6%
Alien 6                            b. Rafique     185   245   40    1   75.5%
Alien 7             c. Ashraful    b. Murtaza     212   253   45    1   83.8%
Alien 8             c. Shahriar    b. Murtaza      62    74   14    0   83.8%
Alien 9                            b. Murtaza      54    81   11    0   66.7%
Alien 10            lbw            b. Murtaza      12    33    2    0   36.4%
Alien 11            not out                         1     2    0    0   50.0%
 
 Total:  1176/10      Overs:  253.5        Run Rate:  4.63     Extras:  32 
   
                             Day 3  3:57 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
ALIENS Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
A 1           A 2          þþþ                                       54 (74)
A 3           A 2          þþþþ                                      64 (114)
A 4           A 2          þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ      479 (586)
A 5           A 2          þþ                                        37 (55)
A 5           A 6          þ                                          1 (16)
A 7           A 6          þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ             385 (469)
A 7           A 8          þþ                                        36 (40)
A 9           A 8          þþþþþþ                                    83 (97)
A 9           A 10         þþ                                        36 (69)
A 9           A 11         þ                                          1 (3)


     Fall of Wickets    54/1      118/2     597/3     634/4     635/5
                        1020/6    1056/7    1139/8    1175/9    1176/10   

 Total:  1176/10     Overs:  253.5         Run Rate:  4.63    Extras:  32   
  
                                     -X-

BANGLADESH Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Mashrafi Murtaza     70.5     19     257      8      3.63     1      3 
Manjurul Islam       64.0     11     327      1      5.11     0      2 
Mohammad Rafique     88.0     15     446      1      5.07     2      4 
Mohammad Ashraful    22.0      8      57      0      2.59     0      0 
Alok Kopali           9.0      1      70      0      7.78     1      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 4      No Balls: 9      Leg Byes: 17     Byes: 2 

 Total:  1176/10      Overs:  253.5        Run Rate:  4.63    Extras:  32   
                                     -X-
 
 
BANGLADESH 1st innings

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Hannan Sarker       c. 8           b. 9             4    14    1    0   28.6%
Al Shahriar                        b. 10            0    11    0    0    0.0%
Habibul Bashar                     b. 6             0     8    0    0    0.0%
Ehsanul Haque       c. 4           b. 9             2    13    0    0   15.4%
Tushar Imran        lbw            b. 11           11    41    0    0   26.8%
Mohammad Ashraful   c. 2           b. 9             0     3    0    0    0.0%
Alok Kopali                        b. 6            12    41    2    0   29.3%
Khaled Mashud       not out                        26    57    6    0   45.6%
Mohammad Rafique    c. 1           b. 10            4    14    1    0   28.6%
Mashrafi Murtaza    c. 7           b. 9            19    25    4    0   76.0%
Manjurul Islam      c. 7           b. 11            0     6    0    0    0.0%
 
 Total:  82/10        Overs:  38.5         Run Rate:  2.11     Extras:  4 
   
                             Day 4  11:33 AM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
BANGLADESH Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
H Sarker      A Shahriar   þ                                          4 (23)
H Sarker      H Bashar                                                0 (3)
E Haque       H Bashar     þ                                          2 (18)
E Haque       T Imran      þ                                          2 (5)
M Ashraful    T Imran                                                 0 (3)
A Kopali      T Imran      þþþþþþ                                    14 (62)
K Mashud      T Imran      þþþþþ                                     12 (25)
K Mashud      M Rafique    þþþþþ                                     12 (26)
K Mashud      M Murtaza    þþþþþþþþþþþþ                              28 (56)
K Mashud      M Islam      þþþ                                        8 (12)


     Fall of Wickets    4/1       4/2       6/3       8/4       8/5
                        22/6      34/7      46/8      74/9      82/10     

 Total:  82/10       Overs:  38.5          Run Rate:  2.11    Extras:  4   
  
                                     -X-

ALIENS Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Alien 10              6.0      1      19      2      3.17     0      0 
Alien 9              11.0      4      19      4      1.73     0      0 
Alien 6               9.0      3      16      2      1.78     0      1 
Alien 8               7.0      4       8      0      1.14     0      0 
Alien 11              5.5      2      17      2      2.91     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 0      No Balls: 1      Leg Byes: 1      Byes: 2 

 Total:  82/10        Overs:  38.5         Run Rate:  2.11    Extras:  4   
                                     -X-
 
 
BANGLADESH 2nd innings (Follow on)

Player              Status                        Runs  Blls  4s   6s    S/R
Hannan Sarker       c. 4           b. 10           47    90    8    0   52.2%
Al Shahriar                        b. 10            4    25    1    0   16.0%
Habibul Bashar                     b. 6             8    27    1    0   29.6%
Ehsanul Haque       c. 7           b. 11           33    85    7    0   38.8%
Tushar Imran        c. 2           b. 9             9    27    2    0   33.3%
Mohammad Ashraful   lbw            b. 11            0    10    0    0    0.0%
Alok Kopali                        b. 9             0     4    0    0    0.0%
Khaled Mashud       lbw            b. 8             3    15    0    0   20.0%
Mohammad Rafique                   b. 10           22    33    5    0   66.7%
Mashrafi Murtaza    lbw            b. 8            20    36    3    0   55.6%
Manjurul Islam      not out                         0    18    0    0    0.0%
 
 Total:  159/10       Overs:  61.2         Run Rate:  2.59     Extras:  13 
   
                             Day 4  4:38 PM
   
  
                                     -X-
 
BANGLADESH Partnerships

Batsmen                                                            Runs (Balls)
H Sarker      A Shahriar   þþþþþþ                                    15 (52)
H Sarker      H Bashar     þþþþþþþþþþ                                24 (48)
H Sarker      E Haque      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                           35 (97)
T Imran       E Haque      þþþþþþþþþþþþþþ                            33 (52)
T Imran       M Ashraful   þþ                                         5 (12)
A Kopali      M Ashraful                                              0 (6)
A Kopali      K Mashud     þ                                          2 (7)
M Rafique     K Mashud     þ                                          2 (18)
M Rafique     M Murtaza    þþþþþþþþþþþþ                              28 (37)
M Islam       M Murtaza    þþþþþþ                                    15 (39)


     Fall of Wickets    15/1      39/2      74/3      107/4     112/5
                        112/6     114/7     116/8     144/9     159/10    

 Total:  159/10      Overs:  61.2          Run Rate:  2.59    Extras:  13   
  
                                     -X-

ALIENS Bowling

Player               Overs   Mdns    Runs   Wkts      E/R    Wds    NBs
Alien 10             11.0      2      26      3      2.36     0      0 
Alien 9              10.0      2      19      2      1.90     1      1 
Alien 6              15.0      5      25      1      1.67     0      0 
Alien 11             15.0      3      58      2      3.87     1      0 
Alien 8              10.2      2      21      2      2.03     0      0 


 EXTRAS          Wides: 2      No Balls: 1      Leg Byes: 4      Byes: 6 

 Total:  159/10       Overs:  61.2         Run Rate:  2.59    Extras:  13   
                                     -X-
 
 
  
 
Aliens              1176
Bangladesh          82 & 159
   
Aliens won by an innings and 935 runs
  
Man of the match: Alien 2
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Because Hayden has an average of 53, which is pretty high. These sort of simulators don't take into account anything other than average, which is why Hayden prospers.
Miller doesn't have a high batting average yet gets a lot. Bradman has the highest average and still doesn't have a century in the other simulation thread. :laugh:
 

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