Andrew Symonds is at fault himself

[sideshowtim]

To discuss cricket with people. I'm not going to put on a neutral face just to try and fit in or whatever.

 

[Sanz]

To discuss cricket with people. I'm not going to put on a neutral face just to try and fit in or whatever.

I dont think there is anyone on this forum who is a neutral fan, at least not to my knowledge. They all support and love their team as much as you do (if not more).

Most of them dont say stuff to fit in here, they say it because that is how they are, good natured people, gracious in wins and sporting in losses. They have got a decent judgement about other members and the forum in general and that's why they fit in here so well.

 

[Richard]

To discuss cricket with people. I'm not going to put on a neutral face just to try and fit in or whatever.

It's not a case of putting-on a face, though, it's a case of caring what people think about you - because that way you get far more lucid discussions with them.

I, for one, would rather be thought of as a sensible, pleasant person than an obnoxious idiot. Therefore, I try not to be nasty to people unless I feel they really deserve it.

And hbh doesn't - you'll get nowhere on CW attacking him because he's one of the nicest guys going around this place.

 

[sideshowtim]

It's not a case of putting-on a face, though, it's a case of caring what people think about you - because that way you get far more lucid discussions with them.

I, for one, would rather be thought of as a sensible, pleasant person than an obnoxious idiot. Therefore, I try not to be nasty to people unless I feel they really deserve it.

And hbh doesn't - you'll get nowhere on CW attacking him because he's one of the nicest guys going around this place.

Oh come on.

Look how ridiculous his comment was. I don't care how nice he is, if someone says something as dumb as "There has never been racism in India"...They're bringing it on themselves.

 

[Richard]

Perhaps it might seem that way to you: I question how well you know hbh TBH. He's not one to say something ridiculous, really; if you read this whole thread it's very obvious what he means by what he said and it makes perfect sense (as Pratyush said in reply to sp713).

Whether he is right in his interpretation of what constitutes racism is a moot-point, and TBH I don't really understand enough about it to be able to form an opinion. Do you? How much of the term "casteism" are you familiar with? Me, I'd heard the term perhaps 3 or 4 times in my life before this thread, and never once given it any real consideration.

 

[Sanz]

For once, I completely agree with Richard's last post.

Moderators please note and record it in yor file.

 

[Fusion]

Perhaps it might seem that way to you: I question how well you know hbh TBH. He's not one to say something ridiculous, really; if you read this whole thread it's very obvious what he means by what he said and it makes perfect sense (as Pratyush said in reply to sp713).

Whether he is right in his interpretation of what constitutes racism is a moot-point, and TBH I don't really understand enough about it to be able to form an opinion. Do you? How much of the term "casteism" are you familiar with? Me, I'd heard the term perhaps 3 or 4 times in my life before this thread, and never once given it any real consideration.

Agreed. Whether you agree with his statement or not, there is no need to take pot-shots at him. It's not like he made that one comment and then disappeared. He explained his reasoning in detail, and even apologized later if he inadvertently hurt anyone's feelings. Again, you can disagree with his view, but I don't think he was being ridiculous or dumb. He simply has a different view.

 

[PhoenixFire]

For once, I completely agree with Richard's last post.

Moderators please note and record it in yor file.

Please report to the hospital to get a checkup immediately.

 

[Fusion]

Please report to the hospital to get a checkup immediately.

 

[archie mac]

Oh come on.

Look how ridiculous his comment was. I don't care how nice he is, if someone says something as dumb as "There has never been racism in India"...They're bringing it on themselves.

I think it just shows that there are racists in all cricket grounds around the world, I was most upset to see how young a number of the people yelling out the racist taunts were

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Haha, why should he have to want to fit in, Dicko?

 

[pup11]

Idiotic and pathetic behaviour from the few dickheads in the crowd and this sort of behaviour is just not acceptable on a cricket ground, i feel sorry for Symmo some people might think he is such a punk so he deserves it, but i don't think anybody deserves a to be taunted racially so this kind of behaviour is just uncalled for.

 

[Nate]

Haha, why should he have to want to fit in, Dicko?

Could just stop killing the forum atmosphere in every thread instead.

On some of the old points of darkness is skin colour, over half my group at high school were Indian. A lot of their discussion on how how successful someone was or how attractive a girl is, was based on how light their skin is. A direct quote is "Nah, she's really hot and has a good body, but she's too dark."

Understand this is just my one-off view of things, but was pretty surprised.

 

[R_D]

Could just stop killing the forum atmosphere in every thread instead.

On some of the old points of darkness is skin colour, over half my group at high school were Indian. A lot of their discussion on how how successful someone was or how attractive a girl is, was based on how light their skin is. A direct quote is "Nah, she's really hot and has a good body, but she's too dark."

Understand this is just my one-off view of things, but was pretty surprised.

Yeah certainly is ruining the forum atmosphere.
Yeah there are quite a few Indians with that mentality as SJS and SS already said the same thing.

I was also surprised the other day by something..... Been on a end of season football trip to Adelaide and we were just kicking the ball at the Park and than some Aborigines came their and they were just sitting their. The all my mates started talking about aborigines and all this and i thought it was all in good fun. They were saying **** but i thought that were just joking. Than we were walking back to our hostel and there was an aborigine walking same side of footpath as us and than all of them crossed the road saying look their is an aborigine their. I kept of walking but i must say i was pretty surprised by their attitude to say the least.

 

[Perm]

Could just stop killing the forum atmosphere in every thread instead.

On some of the old points of darkness is skin colour, over half my group at high school were Indian. A lot of their discussion on how how successful someone was or how attractive a girl is, was based on how light their skin is. A direct quote is "Nah, she's really hot and has a good body, but she's too dark."

Understand this is just my one-off view of things, but was pretty surprised.

Not surprising TBH, there are a lot of people who don't generally find darker girls attractive, myself included.

 

[Perm]

For once, I completely agree with Richard's last post.

Richard please note and record it in yor file.

Just fixed up that mistake for you

 

[honestbharani]

Oh come on.

Look how ridiculous his comment was. I don't care how nice he is, if someone says something as dumb as "There has never been racism in India"...They're bringing it on themselves.

I am yet to see where you have come up with an example of when there was racism in India.


Leaving that aside, you see, this issue is now brought up, the Mumbai guys read about it, they know about it and there are always these idiots, who, because of drink or whatever other influence, want to make trouble and they will pick it up. Don't confuse what happened here with RACISM IN INDIA. It is totally different. Here, it is just a few idiots who want to make a fuss and create trouble and they do it by making racist taunts at Symonds and they get evicted for it. Poor form from them and from the authorities if they didn't evict them immediately (as it seems to have happened). But I bet you won't see people being rejected from cricket teams or being asked to get out of railway carriages or being refused jobs because of the color of their skin in India.

And again, why do you have to take it that I meant that there are no evils in India? There are evils aplenty in India... There are other forms of discrimination within human beings which are just as bad as racism like casteism that exist in India. I am not saying we are angels. I am just saying that the racism as known in the west and in Australia doesn't exist in INdia just like how casteism doesn't exist in Australia. I never meant that Indians are better than Aussies or whatever bull you seem to have imagined.


PS: I agree that this may well be what is happening in Australia as well, w.r.t Murali and others being subjected to racial abuse. But again, if the authorities fail to evict them, then it is wrong, just as it was wrong with the Indian authorities.

 

[honestbharani]

Could just stop killing the forum atmosphere in every thread instead.

On some of the old points of darkness is skin colour, over half my group at high school were Indian. A lot of their discussion on how how successful someone was or how attractive a girl is, was based on how light their skin is. A direct quote is "Nah, she's really hot and has a good body, but she's too dark."

Understand this is just my one-off view of things, but was pretty surprised.

Not at all, Nnanden. As a matter of fact, even SJS pointed this out earlier. It still exists. Heck, my parents took a look at my elder sister's groom for the first time during the engagement and they said, wow, he is so white. He is so good looking.

As SJS has pointed out, it does seem ingrained in our mentality atleast that the fairer the skin of the person is, the more beautiful they are. If that is what you would consider as racism, then yes, Indians are and have been racist for a long long time now. But my point is, from whatever little history of racism that I did read, it is about being refused your rightful place in society due to the color of your skin, which didn't exist in India, except maybe in isolated villages. There were other forms of discrimination which ended up with the same result (ie, people being refused their rightful places in the society and opportunities along with it) but it was never the color of the skin alone that was the cause.


And honestly, I do think we are slowly moving away from the "fairer they are, the more beautiful they look" syndrome. Maybe it is because even in the US now, it is (or was, I dunno, these "in" things seem to change every day out there) the TANNED look that is cool. And we do have an unfortunate habit, as a society, of aping the west, mainly the US.

 

[Laurrz]

I don't condone racial abuse of Andrew Symonds but this whole thing could have been easily avoided if he had been a lot more circumspect.

By opening his big mouth about how humble the Aussies were relative to the Indians (which honestly is the biggest load of codswallop I've heard), he wasn't exactly going to endear himself to the Indian players/crowds.
He should have shown a lot more common sense and decorum and I think he may have saved himself a lot of trouble.

It's a bit ridiculous to put all the blame on Sreesanth or the opposition players/crowd when you guys are not exactly saints yourself.

In any case Australia are the best team in the world....sure they perform but I don't see why they need to make comments like what Symonds made....it showed a total lack of sportsmanship and grace This is the think that really irks me about the Aussie players....they need to show their moral superiority in addition to their cricketing one.
The latter IMO is more than enough.
I haven't heard a single Aussie official or publication censuring Symonds for that. Which is very , very disappointing IMO.
If India want to go overboard with their celebrations that's their problem - no skin off my nose.
Australia IMO have to take some of the blame for the bad blood that has existed in this series.

i think normal abuse is fine
.. its all normal

but racial abuse? not on..

 

[SJS]

Not at all, Nnanden. As a matter of fact, even SJS pointed this out earlier. It still exists. Heck, my parents took a look at my elder sister's groom for the first time during the engagement and they said, wow, he is so white. He is so good looking.

As SJS has pointed out, it does seem ingrained in our mentality atleast that the fairer the skin of the person is, the more beautiful they are. If that is what you would consider as racism, then yes, Indians are and have been racist for a long long time now. But my point is, from whatever little history of racism that I did read, it is about being refused your rightful place in society due to the color of your skin, which didn't exist in India, except maybe in isolated villages. There were other forms of discrimination which ended up with the same result (ie, people being refused their rightful places in the society and opportunities along with it) but it was never the color of the skin alone that was the cause.


And honestly, I do think we are slowly moving away from the "fairer they are, the more beautiful they look" syndrome. Maybe it is because even in the US now, it is (or was, I dunno, these "in" things seem to change every day out there) the TANNED look that is cool. And we do have an unfortunate habit, as a society, of aping the west, mainly the US.

Good points HB.

Wanting a fairer husband or wife was the same as wanting a good looking husband or wife (fairness beind one of the criteria for looks). No one considers wanting a goodooking spouse discriminatory against those who are not good looking.