*Official* South Africa in Pakistan

[Unattainableguy]

It does make sense. Misbah-ul-Haq isn't good enough at Test level and neither is Faisal Iqbal, that's plan to see. Mohammad Hafeez has actually done something during his Test career, and adds another option while bowling. Salman Butt is one of the most promising batsman in Pakistan, so deserves another chance, not to mention the fact he was horrendously sick during this game.

How can you say Misbah Ul Haq isn't good enough and Hafeez is? Please look at their FC averages, Hafeez's is a lot lower and Misbah Ul Haq averages 47. I think it's common sense to see that when you have 2 players who haven't done much at test level, best way to judge who is more likely to succeed is by looking at their first class averages.

And Hafeez has done nothing in his Test career because an average of 33 is poor. There are very few cases where batsmen have averaged more in Test cricket than FC, so it's obvious if he hasn't had success in FC, very unlikely he will at Test level. As far his bowling, didn't you say Afridi is a mediocre bowler, and I'm sure everyone on this forum except you will agree Afridi as a bowler > Hafeez so now if you say Hafeez's bowling is another option in tests I can only at that.

 

[pup11]

I think Pakistan should open with Akmal (i don't think they have any decent replacement for him) and Butt (he has got the potential he just needs to concentrate harder), i don't think Hafeez is a good enough a player to play at the test level.
Inzy and MoYo should walk into the team, i thought it was dire to select Misbah in test's on the basis of his T20 showing and Iqbal is nowhere near test standard atm.
Pakistan needs to get Tanvir into the side too, because with two spinners in the side they would have to depend too heavily on winning the toss!
Inzy just needs another 21 runs to become the highest run-getter for Pakistan in test cricket i hope he makes those runs and that would be a fitting end to his career, he was easily one of the most skilled batsmen Pakistan has ever produced.

 

[Perm]

How can you say Misbah Ul Haq isn't good enough and Hafeez is? Please look at their FC averages, Hafeez's is a lot lower and Misbah Ul Haq averages 47. I think it's common sense to see that when you have 2 players who haven't done much at test level, best way to judge who is more likely to succeed is by looking at their first class averages.

Fact of the matter is, Misbah hasn't done anything at Test level and Mohammad Hafeez has, hence he should be ahead of Misbah in the pecking order.

And Hafeez has done nothing in his Test career because an average of 33 is poor. There are very few cases where batsmen have averaged more in Test cricket than FC, so it's obvious if he hasn't had success in FC, very unlikely he will at Test level. As far his bowling, didn't you say Afridi is a mediocre bowler, and I'm sure everyone on this forum except you will agree Afridi as a bowler > Hafeez so now if you say Hafeez's bowling is another option in tests I can only at that.

He's done nothing of note, despite scoring two centuries and two half centuries? Up until his poor tour of South Africa, where most batsman struggled, he was averaging over 40 I think. You say that 33 is a poor average, yet given that Hafeez is an all-round option, means that it isn't as poor as you make it out to be. There are numerous players in Test cricket at the moment who average more in Test cricket than First Class games, it's not really that uncommon, despite not being the usual. I said Afridi is a mediocre bowler when put in perspective, as clearly he isn't fit to be part of a current world bowling line-up. Hafeez is another bowling option, especially as a 5th bowler since Shoaib Malik has almost stopped bowling in Tests.

 

[shortpitched713]

AB played a good knock in the first innings, as did Amla, but I think it's time for Hashim to say goodbye to Test cricket, surely there are better options out there.

Meh, Amla's knock in the first innings should be enough to save his skin for now. No point in pulling a Pakistan and not giving him a run. It might have been a "dog ugly" innings, but it was very effective and he had a fair bit of pressure on him. If he doesn't show anything special in the next match or two though I'd be inclined to agree.

Really this is one of the problems with a two Test series though, in that a player only gets four innings in which to prove himself. Can hardly call that a Test tour imo.

 

[pup11]

Amla is an old fashioned test player who loves to take all the time in the world to score his runs and scratch around for his runs, neither is his technique suited to bat at no.3.

 

[Perm]

Meh, Amla's knock in the first innings should be enough to save his skin for now. No point in pulling a Pakistan and not giving him a run. It might have been a "dog ugly" innings, but it was very effective and he had a fair bit of pressure on him. If he doesn't show anything special in the next match or two though I'd be inclined to agree.

Really this is one of the problems with a two Test series though, in that a player only gets four innings in which to prove himself. Can hardly call that a Test tour imo.

It's not so much his current form, which seems to be okay. It's the fact he hasn't been performing over the last couple of Test series that he's played which is more of a concern. He averaged 17, 15 and 32 in his last three Test series, which is pretty unacceptable. I don't mind the fashion in which he scores his runs, but the fact he hasn't really been scoring them at all.

 

[nightprowler10]

That's why I say test matches should be reduced to 4 days. All those people who say T20 is boring, please tell me why after the first day of this test, it was clear which team was going to win the match, but it's usually never the case with T20 until the last over is bowled. Pitches are just flat and it's never gonna change, and when it's 5 days long, and batsmen score at SR of 30-40 it's just too boring, there's no other way to describe it.

 

[aussie]

Not to say Amla looks a bad player and won't have a decent career for South Africa. But along with Prince (even though he has proven he can cut it at the highest level in recent years) are forceful quota selections towards the likes of McKenzie & Dipenaar which is fairly rough IMO.

 

[haroon510]

Fact of the matter is, Misbah hasn't done anything at Test level and Mohammad Hafeez has, hence he should be ahead of Misbah in the pecking order.



He's done nothing of note, despite scoring two centuries and two half centuries? Up until his poor tour of South Africa, where most batsman struggled, he was averaging over 40 I think. You say that 33 is a poor average, yet given that Hafeez is an all-round option, means that it isn't as poor as you make it out to be. There are numerous players in Test cricket at the moment who average more in Test cricket than First Class games, it's not really that uncommon, despite not being the usual. I said Afridi is a mediocre bowler when put in perspective, as clearly he isn't fit to be part of a current world bowling line-up. Hafeez is another bowling option, especially as a 5th bowler since Shoaib Malik has almost stopped bowling in Tests.

what about playing with yasir hameed... yasir hameed had made at least a fifty in his last six innings (65 in frist test against SA last year in SA in the same hard and jucy pitch that u mention) and he hasn't get a chance since then.... as far as hafeez' bowling goes there is no way his bowling is better than afridi.. i think if afridi wanted to play it was a better replacement of hafeez not only in this test series but in any type cricket game..

in addition, yasir has better average and strike rate than hafeez and he is a wicketkeeper also.. i am thinking about they should give him a chance for kamran akmal in next up coming test match.. i don't think he would do worse than kamran akmal is doing right now...

i see three players that shouldn't be in the team for the next match hafeez, faisal and kamran, they should be replaced by inzi, moyo and hameed..

 

[Perm]

what about playing with yasir hameed... yasir hameed had made at least a fifty in his last six innings (65 in frist test against SA last year in SA in the same hard and jucy pitch that u mention) and he hasn't get a chance since then.... as far as hafeez' bowling goes there is no way his bowling is better than afridi.. i think if afridi wanted to play it was a better replacement of hafeez not only in this test series but in any type cricket game..

in addition, yasir has better average and strike rate than hafeez and he is a wicketkeeper also.. i am thinking about they should give him a chance for kamran akmal in next up coming test match.. i don't think he would do worse than kamran akmal is doing right now...

i see three players that shouldn't be in the team for the next match hafeez, faisal and kamran, they should be replaced by inzi, moyo and hameed..

I'm not trying to compare Shahid Afridi and Mohammad Hafeez, as they aren't competing for the same spot. Afridi isn't good enough to make the Test side, despite what the Pakistan public think.

Is Yasir Hameed a real wicket keeper, or somebody of a similar nature of Rahul Dravid? I don't think I've ever heard about his keeping being talked about as genuine Test standard, and Pakistan don't want another bumbling idiot behind the stumps. Also, strike rate is almost irrelevant in Test cricket, so that isn't really a factor.

I think that Hafeez should be persisted with, but I also think that Yasir Hameed should be in the side, so it is interesting. If Hafeez fails in this Test match, then I can't see him getting much more of a run in the national side. Hameed has been desperately unlucky not to play more Tests, but he hasn't really been competing with Hafeez for a spot.

 

[haroon510]

I'm not trying to compare Shahid Afridi and Mohammad Hafeez, as they aren't competing for the same spot. Afridi isn't good enough to make the Test side, despite what the Pakistan public think.

Is Yasir Hameed a real wicket keeper, or somebody of a similar nature of Rahul Dravid? I don't think I've ever heard about his keeping being talked about as genuine Test standard, and Pakistan don't want another bumbling idiot behind the stumps. Also, strike rate is almost irrelevant in Test cricket, so that isn't really a factor.

I think that Hafeez should be persisted with, but I also think that Yasir Hameed should be in the side, so it is interesting. If Hafeez fails in this Test match, then I can't see him getting much more of a run in the national side. Hameed has been desperately unlucky not to play more Tests, but he hasn't really been competing with Hafeez for a spot.

what afridi averages 38 in test matches much higher than his odi
his bowling has been better in test than odi considering that pakistani team depend in kaneria than afridi..

 

[Perm]

what afridi averages 38 in test matches much higher than his odi
his bowling has been better in test than odi considering that pakistani team depend in kaneria than afridi..

His average of 37.40 in Test cricket hugely flatters him, and it's pretty obvious to anybody who has seen him bat that he doesn't have the brain capacity to be successful in the longer format. Most of his runs have come against pretty weak bowling attacks, or on very flat pitches. Also, he has been dropped a number of times from the side when the Pakistan selectors were looking to utilise specialists, which means that he hasn't had the opportunity for his average to come down and be a fair representation of how good he is.

His Test bowling hasn't come anywhere near the standard of his ODI bowling, which has been exceptional over the past few years.

 

[SJS]

Akhtar the way to go

Akhtar should have gone just one way......hers.

Unfortunately in the subcontinent we are shamelessly brazen.

 

[Mister Wright]

His average of 37.40 in Test cricket hugely flatters him, and it's pretty obvious to anybody who has seen him bat that he doesn't have the brain capacity to be successful in the longer format. Most of his runs have come against pretty weak bowling attacks, or on very flat pitches. Also, he has been dropped a number of times from the side when the Pakistan selectors were looking to utilise specialists, which means that he hasn't had the opportunity for his average to come down and be a fair representation of how good he is.

His Test bowling hasn't come anywhere near the standard of his ODI bowling, which has been exceptional over the past few years.

That's very unfair. I remember an innings in particular where he was batting in the middle order and made 50 odd and batted very sensibly and was left stranded after more 'fancied' Pakistan batsmen through their wickets away. Afridi hasn't been allowed to settle by the Pakistan heirachy. They keep shifting him from opener to middle order. He's a very capable batsman and has played some very good test innings.

 

[Perm]

That's very unfair. I remember an innings in particular where he was batting in the middle order and made 50 odd and batted very sensibly and was left stranded after more 'fancied' Pakistan batsmen through their wickets away. Afridi hasn't been allowed to settle by the Pakistan heirachy. They keep shifting him from opener to middle order. He's a very capable batsman and has played some very good test innings.

It isn't unfair at all, we've seen it countless times from Afridi, where he might look good for 20 runs but will then have a slog and throw his wicket away. Such a mindset isn't really acceptable in Test cricket, and he doesn't have the mental strength and fortitude to be a successful Test batsman. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't incapable of playing the odd good knock, because to suggest otherwise would be folly.

 

[haroon510]

That's very unfair. I remember an innings in particular where he was batting in the middle order and made 50 odd and batted very sensibly and was left stranded after more 'fancied' Pakistan batsmen through their wickets away. Afridi hasn't been allowed to settle by the Pakistan heirachy. They keep shifting him from opener to middle order. He's a very capable batsman and has played some very good test innings.

exactly,


i was watching his innings in this match

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63828.html

he was playing pretty good and sensibly considering how much pressure it is against india for pakistani players...as a batsman he is much better in test cricket i think than one day.. it is unfortunate that he himself doesn't have alot of interest in test cricket.. other wise a cricketer like him in test cricket would bring alot of cricket fans to the ground..

as far as his bowling goes... he averages about 34 while kaneria averages 32 or 33... kaneria mostly doesn't take a wicket until he hasn't bowle ten over or so... while i have seen afridi in test cricket not even bowling that many overs.. but taking a couple of wickets.. i see it this way considering the form he is right now in bowling.. he could be a good asset in bowling for pakistan and his bating can come as a plus for his bowling..

 

[haroon510]

It isn't unfair at all, we've seen it countless times from Afridi, where he might look good for 20 runs but will then have a slog and throw his wicket away. Such a mindset isn't really acceptable in Test cricket, and he doesn't have the mental strength and fortitude to be a successful Test batsman. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't incapable of playing the odd good knock, because to suggest otherwise would be folly.

i see one thing that is wrong with afridi's bating.. certainly that is patiance... but sometimes this can put pressure in the opposition's bowling line up... they would think that he is going to hit the ball and bawlers would come under pressure...

i think his bowling would be a good asset for pakistan than his bating... considering how dire kaneria is..

 

[Mister Wright]

It isn't unfair at all, we've seen it countless times from Afridi, where he might look good for 20 runs but will then have a slog and throw his wicket away. Such a mindset isn't really acceptable in Test cricket, and he doesn't have the mental strength and fortitude to be a successful Test batsman. Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't incapable of playing the odd good knock, because to suggest otherwise would be folly.

An average of 37.whatever suggests otherwise. An average of 37 does not make a player of test class, but it also does not mean he gets out for 20 odd runs.

Have you actually watched him in test match cricket? He is far from a slogger.

 

[Perm]

An average of 37.whatever suggests otherwise. An average of 37 does not make a player of test class, but it also does not mean he gets out for 20 odd runs.

Have you actually watched him in test match cricket? He is far from a slogger.

I have seen him bat, and he is definitely a slogger. Poor technique, little to no mental application, and a penchant for wanting to hit the ball for six. Everything points to slogger.

You can't base your judgement on statistics, like I said, his average isn't a fair reflection of his batting ability, it's very generous to him. The example I used was just that, an example, not something that actually happens consistently whenever Afridi bats. My point is that he has the ability to throw away his wicket pretty easily, and usually does so.

 

[Mister Wright]

I have seen him bat, and he is definitely a slogger. Poor technique, little to no mental application, and a penchant for wanting to hit the ball for six. Everything points to slogger.

You can't base your judgement on statistics, like I said, his average isn't a fair reflection of his batting ability, it's very generous to him. The example I used was just that, an example, not something that actually happens consistently whenever Afridi bats. My point is that he has the ability to throw away his wicket pretty easily, and usually does so.

I'm not basing my judgement on statistics, I have actually seen him bat in tests on a few occcasions, and on those few occasions, IMO he has looked very good in the whites with a bat in hand. Certainly not this slogger that you claim him to be and the statistics back me up here.