Haddin for Gilchrist in ODI

[Prince EWS]

Why? Why should a player not do what is best for his team, regarding any issue? Any player who's retired from ODIs - and as I say there have been many of them - because "I won't be around for the next Cup" has done it for precisely this reason.

Because it's really not his call, IMO. He should leave that to the selectors. If he doesn't want/B] to play because of that reason, that is fair enough. But if he still wants to play and retires for that reason, it is pretty silly IMO. Players should retire when they want to; not when they think it is best for the team. If it is best for the team for them not to be playing, the selectors will drop them. Knowing you won't be around for the next World Cup can effect your drive to succeed, not to mention the fact that I'm sure many players who retired for said reason spoke to the selectors first about it and got a nudge. That's why players retire in that situation. But if the selectors take my point of view on the matter rather than yours, and the player still wants to play and succeed, then he should keep playing.

Obviously his last score is irrelevant if he still feels he has things he wants to do, but I can't really see what they'd be TBH. Gilchrist has achieved everything he could possibly want to in ODIs from what I can see, and an innings like that couldn't have been a better way to draw down the curtain.

How about scoring runs and contributing to victories for your country? That's pretty special, no matter how many times you've done it before. Players don't just play for career accomplishments; they play for each match.

 

[Richard]

Because it's really not his call, IMO. He should leave that to the selectors. If he doesn't want/B] to play because of that reason, that is fair enough. But if he still wants to play and retires for that reason, it is pretty silly IMO. Players should retire when they want to; not when they think it is best for the team. If it is best for the team for them not to be playing, the selectors will drop them. Knowing you won't be around for the next World Cup can effect your drive to succeed, not to mention the fact that I'm sure many players who retired for said reason spoke to the selectors first about it and got a nudge. That's why players retire in that situation. But if the selectors take my point of view on the matter rather than yours, and the player still wants to play and succeed, then he should keep playing.

I guess this kinda relates to what I say below, the bit about drive to play and win ODIs if you know you won't be around for the next Cup.

How about scoring runs and contributing to victories for your country? That's pretty special, no matter how many times you've done it before. Players don't just play for career accomplishments; they play for each match.

As I say, it truly does amaze me that players get much out of winning ODIs, and bilateral ODI series. I'd only ever get pleasure from it myself if I knew I was doing it in the hope that some day in the future I'd be doing it in a World Cup.

If Adam Craig Gilchrist wants to win ODIs, he should keep playing them I suppose. I guess, rather than "he should retire becaue he won't be around for the next WC", I should say "he should not want to play now because he won't be around for the next WC".

This is all, of course, assuming he's not thinking to do so. As Matt (of the 79 variety) said, it's not a given that just because someone's 35 or 36 that they won't still be playing and playing well in 4 years' time. Gilchrist especially is a pretty special talent and if anyone can break the sequence of no 40-year-olds playing for Australia since the 1930s (there are two exceptions, but both are so anomalaic I tend to write them off) he can.

 

[Swervy]

If Adam Craig Gilchrist wants to win ODIs, he should keep playing them I suppose.

That is generous of you

 

[Richard]

That is a fairly silly post that adds nothing to anything.

 

[Swervy]

That is a fairly silly post that adds nothing to anything.

yeah I know...fun isn't it, learnt from the best

 

[Richard]

You can't really learn to do silly things TBH.

 

[Swervy]

You can't really learn to do silly things TBH.

yeah I know Richard, whatever you say boss

 

[Richard]

That's the stuff.

 

[Flem274*]

It's going to happen eventually, what difference does it make if it happens now or in 2 years' time? Who's really going to remember what New Zealand's ODI performances were like in 2007 and 2008 in 2015? Pretty much no-one, I'd bet.

That said, nor would I bet against Bond making 2011. He's, what, 32? He hasn't fallen down for a fair while now, and most top-notch bowlers (which Bond beyond question is, especially in ODIs) are still perfectly good enough at 36. So I'd hope he can make it, personally.

Most probably you will.

As for only WC's being important, not strictly true. The CH series is pretty damn important, as was that 2001 VB series between us, aus and SA. The 2000 CT win was pretty special too.

As for preparing until WC's, I hope Bond makes it too. If he stays fit he may well do so. ATM there is no one good enough to replace him however in a couple of years time a few of the young quicks will have reached the age where they're ready. (I think, how old is Bennet? He's the oldest of the up and comers isnt he?) Then if Bond wants to call it a day we have someone good to replace him rather than greentop bully #16483

 

[Richard]

Most probably you will.

Well, yeah, but I won't be revelling in it.

As for only WC's being important, not strictly true. The CH series is pretty damn important, as was that 2001 VB series between us, aus and SA. The 2000 CT win was pretty special too.

Hmm, doubt too many people were "ah, well we won the Chappell-Hadlee"ing after the WC exit were they?

In the VBS 2001\02, granted it will always be nice to knock-out Australia given how seriously they take it, but well... it was of little consolation to me when South Africa lost the following series to Australia (and a pretty damn poor Australia at that). Never mind when they went out of the WC in the first round.

Champions Trophies (Knockout Trophies as it was in 2000) are hopefully going to become a bit special in time, but right now they're still veering between the 2nd-biggest tournament in ODI cricket and a pointless waste of time. The last one was the first one that really went well.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hmm, doubt too many people were "ah, well we won the Chappell-Hadlee"ing after the WC exit were they?

Similarly though, people wouldn't have been "ah, well, we might possibly do well at the World Cup if we're lucky"ing if they lost.

Obviously the World Cup is more important, but it's not that much more important that selections four years beforehand should be based around it, and it's not all about what you remember and what you don't.

 

[Richard]

I think it is, though. World Cups, even the worst, are far more memorable that most other ODIs.

No, you won't be thinking "ah well we might get lucky in the WC if we lose" in a run-of-the-mill ODI series, but that's the whole point - if you've got good chances in a WC, you're pretty likely to be going to do well in the series you're currently playing in.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think it is, though. World Cups, even the worst, are far more memorable that most other ODIs.

No, you won't be thinking "ah well we might get lucky in the WC if we lose" in a run-of-the-mill ODI series, but that's the whole point - if you've got good chances in a WC, you're pretty likely to be going to do well in the series you're currently playing in.

A whole four years beforehand? I don't think today's game for example will have any bearing on the 2011 WC, nor will it be any indication. It's here for what it is. Not all games are about winning a bigger tournament or even winning the series; sometimes you have to look at the smaller picture and realise each game is worth winning for what it is - a game of cricket.

Whether you remember the game in 10 minutes, 10 days, 10 weeks or 10 years isn't really relevant.

 

[Richard]

They certainly can have some bearing on 2011 - if you pick players now, rather than in 2 years' time, you have more time to find-out they're not good enough and try someone else.

 

[Prince EWS]

They certainly can have some bearing on 2011 - if you pick players now, rather than in 2 years' time, you have more time to find-out they're not good enough and try someone else.

I don't really agree that performances four years out tell you anything at all, though.

Regardless of which, that isn't the issue really, at all.

 

[Flem274*]

They certainly can have some bearing on 2011 - if you pick players now, rather than in 2 years' time, you have more time to find-out they're not good enough and try someone else.

What if they're highly talented, but unproven and a bit young to be making international debuts? You don't want to ruin players.

 

[Richard]

I don't really agree that performances four years out tell you anything at all, though.

Regardless of which, that isn't the issue really, at all.

If a player performs well in 2007 and 2008, would you not back him to keep doing so?

I would.

 

[Richard]

What if they're highly talented, but unproven and a bit young to be making international debuts? You don't want to ruin players.

Then you don't pick them yet. You pick someone else. Don't tell me there are no players demanding ODI selection in Australia at the moment?

If it's 3 years before Moises Henriques or whoever is ready, so be it. I'm no way advocating his selction right now, however much potential he may have.

 

[iamdavid]

If it's 3 years before Moises Henriques or whoever is ready, so be it. I'm no way advocating his selction right now, however much potential he may have.

This is a little off-topic but a couple of guys I know played against Henriques on Monday and they werent really blown away by his talent.

He did well in the game taking 2-30 and making 70 odd, but apparently his bowling was not as threatening as expected. kinda pacy but not like anything they hadnt faced before. And with the bat he was trying to be cute and play little glides and cuts and it wasnt working so he got frustrated and just started swinging from the ass, and connecting of course.

 

[Salixiscool]

Yeah they should. Let Gilly concentrate in tests and give haddin a shot and prepare him from the world cup. He has been batting equal, if not better than gilchrist has been in India.