Haddin for Gilchrist in ODI

[Perm]

Let's just say he's been lucky he's made so many runs, otherwise his keeping would be under a lot more scrutiny.

Bollocks, even if Gilchrist had averaged around 35 or 40 there wouldn't have been calls to drop him because of his poor wicket-keeping. I agree it's not really top quality, but it's very good and he has done a pretty damn good job.

 

[chaminda_00]

Eat your potato. Hope you enjoy it, because it will be the last potato you eat while thinking Haddin was a failure as a OD opener.

When he played as opener he played some big innings that over shadowed how inconsistent he was as opener. He got bucklet load of starts but only a couple of times in the season he usually went on with those starts and scored a big total. His been a lot more consistent as middle order batsmen. One of major reasons for his fairly low average in List A cricket is due to inconsistency as an opener.

 

[vic_orthdox]

When he played as opener he played some big innings that over shadowed how inconsistent he was as opener. He got bucklet load of starts but only a couple of times in the season he usually went on with those starts and scored a big total. His been a lot more consistent as middle order batsmen. One of major reasons for his fairly low average in List A cricket is due to inconsistency as an opener.

Exactly. He had that huge day out when NSW made nearly 400 vs Tasmania, but the past few seasons when he's hit his straps, he's done his best work coming in after the openers.

 

[Richard]

Not sure why Gilchrist is still playing ODIs TBH, makes no sense to me.

He's never going to make another WC, it's not like he has any loose-ends to tie-up, and there's Haddin whose time is now or never, really.

Would not be at all sorry to see Gilchrist hang-up the ODI shirt at any time in the immediate future.

 

[Matt79]

Yeah, I kinda hope Gilly gives away the pyjama game soon - he is on a gradual decline, and I'd hope it would revitalise him in Tests. Haddin is as good a replacement as your ever going to get for the greatest ever ODI keeper, so now will be as painless a time to do it as you'd ever get. And I don't get the impression Gilly relishes the graft of the ODI circus.

Maybe at the end of this year's VB series - give him his fairy tale finish in front of his home town.

 

[pup11]

Look there are only 3 experienced players in Australia's Odi side Gilly, Hayden and Ponting atm and lets say if Gilly is to retires today than i think Australia would get a bit too light on experience and he is just there to guide Australia through their transition period so nothing wrong in that.
Everyone is criticising Gilly saying that his Odi form has declined so he should be dropped but his Odi form is lot better than his test form over the last 2 years, so if he has to be dropped from the Odi side than on that basis he should also be dropped from the test side.
Gilly has been a champion and he has always played the game on his terms and he should be given the option of quitting the game on his own terms too, he shouldn't be pushed into retirement as he is a good enough individual to decide when is best time for him to retire.

 

[gettingbetter]

Would not be at all sorry to see Gilchrist hang-up the ODI shirt at any time in the immediate future.

Wasn't there an article on Cricinfo during or after the WC where Gilchrist claimed that he is seking to pro-long his Test career?

Might be a vague and poor correlation that I am drawing, but someone like Gilly who is honest enough to walk will know when he is ready to retire from ODIs, and with Haddin's form, it could happen after the CB series.

Look there are only 3 experienced players in Australia's Odi side Gilly, Hayden and Ponting atm and lets say if Gilly is to retires today than i think Australia would get a bit too light on experience and he is just there to guide Australia through their transition period so nothing wrong in

Clarke, Symonds, Lee and Hogg have all played more than 100 ODIs. Bracken has got around 70 or so and Clark has cemented his place in the Test side, so to say he is inexperienced is not fair. Also, Hadin has been the 2nd keeper for so long its no as though any transition period is necessary.

 

[Richard]

Look there are only 3 experienced players in Australia's Odi side Gilly, Hayden and Ponting atm and lets say if Gilly is to retires today than i think Australia would get a bit too light on experience and he is just there to guide Australia through their transition period so nothing wrong in that.

Even if they were (which they aren't, really, as gb shows above) being light on experience isn't a problem if the "inexperienced" players coming into the side are good enough.

Experience is overrated; inexperience certainly is (that is - people think inexperience is a holdback far, far too much).

 

[gettingbetter]

Even if they were (which they aren't, really, as gb shows above) being light on experience isn't a problem if the "inexperienced" players coming into the side are good enough.

Experience is overrated; inexperience certainly is (that is - people think inexperience is a holdback far, far too much).

Wouldn't go that far.

Imagine an Indian line-up of:

Uthappa
Gambhir
Sharma
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Karthik
Pathan
Chawla
Sreesanth
RP Singh
Khan

 

[Richard]

Apart from Karthik, that's a batting-line-up I'd be wholly happy with.

Replace him with, for instance, Badrinath and I'd be wholesomely so if it didn't mean superior players in Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar were excluded.

EDIT: that's not to say I'm convinced by Gambhir and I'm disgusted he was preferred to Ganguly because he's got less talent in his little finger, but he might amount to something.

 

[Richard]

Not sure why Gilchrist is still playing ODIs TBH, makes no sense to me.

He's never going to make another WC, it's not like he has any loose-ends to tie-up, and there's Haddin whose time is now or never, really.

Would not be at all sorry to see Gilchrist hang-up the ODI shirt at any time in the immediate future.

I've just re-examined this thing properly... I really don't see any sense in it for anyone TBH. What better way would there have been for Gilchrist to end his career than with 149 in a World Cup final? You can't delay the time for change forever, the best bet IMO is to get Haddin in there and if (in the unlikely event that TBH) he fails you've got maximum time between now and the next Cup to look at someone else. But for Hussey's injury he'd not be playing currently.

Hayden too - don't see any point in him playing ODIs now. He's had a phenominal few games starting with that 181* one, proved to everyone that he actually can play ODIs at the age of 35. Why did he need to go on any more?

Hogg I still want to see playing as I still don't believe him to be a top-class ODI spinner and a few more games might, maybe, show that (yes, I've been thinking that since 2002\03). I don't imagine he'll be around in WC2011, but there certainly don't appear to be any spinners abounding.

Ponting, Hussey, Symonds, Lee and Bracken, while into their 30s now, are probably young enough to be still, just about (in all cases bar Bracken - he's an "easily") good enough in 2011.

It's really, really annoying Watson's missed this current series as the jury's still out on him; no real good can come of Hopes playing now really, if Watson had been fit it'd have been a case-closed scenario on Hopes' ODI credentials.

Annoying that Tait's injured too, even though the jury's still out on both him and his replacement Johnson. Could have done to see both of them in this current series.

 

[gettingbetter]

Apart from Karthik, that's a batting-line-up I'd be wholly happy with.

Replace him with, for instance, Badrinath and I'd be wholesomely so if it didn't mean superior players in Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar were excluded.

EDIT: that's not to say I'm convinced by Gambhir and I'm disgusted he was preferred to Ganguly because he's got less talent in his little finger, but he might amount to something.

But straight away?

What the other poster was saying was false as he was implying that chaos would occur if Haddin replaced Gilchrist, but with the aforementioned team, you, with Dravid, SRT and Gunguly lose 1000 games of experience and nigh on 40 000 runs. But with what India is doing now - variation on the rotation policy, that team looks quite exciting in the years to come.

 

[Richard]

Years to come will happen in years to come. You either get rid of the Big Three now, or you keep picking them for so long as they're better players than the Sharmas, Gambhirs, Badrinaths et al.

You won't change what happens in years to come by what you do now with either the Big Three or the promising less-played types; you will potentially mess-up your best chances of doing well now if you pick lesser players at the current time. The question you ask is: does it matter if we lost a few games now if we get a good team in years to come?

I'd say, for India, beating Australia now having gone out of the World Cup to Bangladesh would be something worthwhile, and that they'd do well to focus completely on it and worry about the future in the future.

 

[gettingbetter]

I've just re-examined this thing properly... I really don't see any sense in it for anyone TBH. What better way would there have been for Gilchrist to end his career than with 149 in a World Cup final? You can't delay the time for change forever, the best bet IMO is to get Haddin in there and if (in the unlikely event that TBH) he fails you've got maximum time between now and the next Cup to look at someone else. But for Hussey's injury he'd not be playing currently.

Hayden too - don't see any point in him playing ODIs now. He's had a phenominal few games starting with that 181* one, proved to everyone that he actually can play ODIs at the age of 35. Why did he need to go on any more?

Hogg I still want to see playing as I still don't believe him to be a top-class ODI spinner and a few more games might, maybe, show that (yes, I've been thinking that since 2002\03). I don't imagine he'll be around in WC2011, but there certainly don't appear to be any spinners abounding.

Ponting, Hussey, Symonds, Lee and Bracken, while into their 30s now, are probably young enough to be still, just about (in all cases bar Bracken - he's an "easily") good enough in 2011.

Wouldn't you say that going out on a high is overrated?

Seriously, Bradman's last innings?

I can understand what you are though and I do understand your POV. Maybe you're a dreamer and I don't think you're the only one, but fairy-tales take away from the larger picture, I'd rather remember Lara as one of the best batsmen of his generation than being run-out as he did in his final game.

Your point about Hogg only leads me to Gilchrist and Hayden. I agree that there are no other spinners of note who could do the job Hogg could do - imagine White bowling 10 , the same is applicable to Gilchrist, but not for Hayden.

 

[Richard]

I find it inconceivable that there are no people who could open for Australia in ODIs currently.

Hussey and Watson, to name two that immediately spring to mind.

 

[Richard]

Wouldn't you say that going out on a high is overrated?

Seriously, Bradman's last innings?

I can understand what you are though and I do understand your POV. Maybe you're a dreamer and I don't think you're the only one, but fairy-tales take away from the larger picture, I'd rather remember Lara as one of the best batsmen of his generation than being run-out as he did in his final game.

Oh, and no, I wouldn't say going out on a high is overrated. If someone can't do it, that's no downer on fantastic careers (Lara, for instance) but going out on a high is so, so preferable to going out on a low it's untrue. Certainly if you've got the option - which Gilchrist did - it's madness not to take it IMO.

 

[gettingbetter]

The arguments for Hussey becoming an opener are valid, but practicality is far more ideal than theory. In short, Hussey, as good as his record is will become an incumbent in his position at 6 (or wherever he is). No one really likes change and minimising it by only finding an opener rather than finding both opener and middle-order batsmen is ideal.

Watson: people talking about hypotheticals about him is like English fans talkinga bout Jones and Treco playing again. (Don't want to strike a nerve with you Rich, but I like the thought of probabilities rather than possibilities - does that even make sense?)

Going back to the Gilchrist/Hayden fairytale scenario, Hayden has not had the most 'affluent' career would you say. He's been made the fall man by the selectors and has had tough competiton to contend with, so him staying on is reasonable. Gilchrist on the other hand has 'been there done that' and has Haddin pushing him too.

 

[gettingbetter]

Oh, and no, I wouldn't say going out on a high is overrated. If someone can't do it, that's no downer on fantastic careers (Lara, for instance) but going out on a high is so, so preferable to going out on a low it's untrue. Certainly if you've got the option - which Gilchrist did - it's madness not to take it IMO.

Other than Tendulkar being the best ODI batsmen in ODI cricket, I don't think anyone else has such a, how should we say it, 'claim' on a title as Gilly does, that being best WK batsmen in ODIs.

 

[Richard]

Nah, Gilchrist's claim on being the best wicketkeeper-batsman is stronger than anyone's on anything.

Wasim Akram has a stronger case at being the best bowler than Tendulkar does on being the best batsman. I'd rate Bevan > Tendulkar by a fair bit in ODIs, for example.

 

[gettingbetter]

Point taken on SRT, but Gilly?

Also, I need to stuff my face for the new day Rich, but to sum it up.

Going out on a high is overrated unless you work for some sports memorabilia company wanting to release 'Gilly 149' signed by Gilly himself with a limited edition of 149, a good accessory for the rich sports fan for his pool room.

You don't work for one of these firms do you?