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Who was the better bowler ?
- Thread starter SJS
- Start date
Well ,i thought Goughy didn't like wasim personally ,thats what i felt from his views . he is saying abt being left handed ,action etc . there not so many successful left handers with such long careers .Not all left handers were rated by the best by the opponents as well.
As far as i remember only Wasim as rated as the ''best bowler'' by his peers or contemporories .
Being left handed or having a fast arm action makes one a great bowler ,i didn't get that logic . How it helps to move the ball both ways .To produce amazing variations which upset the rhythm of batsmen.
As far as i remember only Wasim as rated as the ''best bowler'' by his peers or contemporories .
Being left handed or having a fast arm action makes one a great bowler ,i didn't get that logic . How it helps to move the ball both ways .To produce amazing variations which upset the rhythm of batsmen.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
One quick google search later
http://www.google.bg/search?hl=bg&q=gooch+best+bowler+faced&meta=
Top answer is http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/test_match_special/3138639.stm
Please provide links or souces for your outlandish claims.Gooch Interview said:
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
You really want me to answer this whole thing point by point? It is tiring you know
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Viv Richards in his autobiography called "The Definitive Autobiography" calls Lillee "the most dangerous fast bowler I have ever faced".
Cant find too many big names championing Wasim. Border seems to rate Marshall as the best (same as Gooch) but all I can see is 2nd hand info on that so it is unsubstantiatd.
Cant find too many big names championing Wasim. Border seems to rate Marshall as the best (same as Gooch) but all I can see is 2nd hand info on that so it is unsubstantiatd.
Goughy ,so according to u Gooch don't give a damn abt Wasim ,.there was an interview way back in 1996 in my local newspaper where he stated that Wasim is one of the best he faced . Ofcourse he said ''one of the '' . Now to know how Gooch actually rate him have a look at this
http://www.sportasylum.com/page/CricketRememberDetail/0,,10301~1016834,00.html
http://www.sportasylum.com/page/CricketRememberDetail/0,,10301~1016834,00.html
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Except that article is in regards to World Cups and hence ODI cricket. No one is arguing regarding limited overs cricket. Most of us here are talking about Test cricket.
Wasim was a good Test bowler, but not a top five all time level. If he made an all time side, it would only be because of the variety that he would add due to being left arm. I'd rather have Imran any day.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Mark Taylor rates Ambrose and Wasim as the two best that he has faced and rates Ambrose the better of the two as well.
''Hmm....he would be in my test dream team as well .I rate him that high''.Why did u miss that part .
Fusion
Global Moderator
Agreed with that.I think you've just destroyed any credibility you may have had on this forum.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Here are their figures at their peaks.
PLAYER.......PERIOD............Tests.......Wkts.........Avg........Strk Rate.......Eco Rate....5 fors......10 fors
Imran.......79-80 to 86-87.........38..........189............16.04.........42.8.....................2.24........14..........3
Wasim.......89-90 to 97-98.........48.........240.............20.05.........46.36...................2.60.........16..........3
Incidentally the only leading batsmen around the world who would have played Imran and Wasim both at their peaks were Border, Richards, Haynes, Greenidge, Crowe, Wright, Ranatunga, Gatting, Kapil and Shastri.
PLAYER.......PERIOD............Tests.......Wkts.........Avg........Strk Rate.......Eco Rate....5 fors......10 fors
Imran.......79-80 to 86-87.........38..........189............16.04.........42.8.....................2.24........14..........3
Wasim.......89-90 to 97-98.........48.........240.............20.05.........46.36...................2.60.........16..........3
Incidentally the only leading batsmen around the world who would have played Imran and Wasim both at their peaks were Border, Richards, Haynes, Greenidge, Crowe, Wright, Ranatunga, Gatting, Kapil and Shastri.
I told u SJS bhai , statistically Imran was better .Again i chose Wasim because of bias ,agreed . Now a question how can we compare two generation bowlers ?
I mean the amount of Cricket including ODI 's .pitches they played ,rules favouring batsmen ...etc .
how would have guys like Lara,Tendulkar ,Ponting ,Dravid ,fared against guys like Imran ,Marshall,Lillee etc in these pitches(more batsmen friendly pitches,restriction of bouncer etc).
How players like Richards ,Gavaskar ,, ....have fared against bowlers like Ambrose ,Mcgrath ,Ws ,donald at their absolute peak .
How can we assume these things ...
I mean the amount of Cricket including ODI 's .pitches they played ,rules favouring batsmen ...etc .
how would have guys like Lara,Tendulkar ,Ponting ,Dravid ,fared against guys like Imran ,Marshall,Lillee etc in these pitches(more batsmen friendly pitches,restriction of bouncer etc).
How players like Richards ,Gavaskar ,, ....have fared against bowlers like Ambrose ,Mcgrath ,Ws ,donald at their absolute peak .
How can we assume these things ...
.sorry one error happened .I am giving my sincere apologies to Mr Goughy.I assure that won't happen again.
Fusion
Global Moderator
Well good on you to recognize the error and apologize. I hope we will continue to see constructive debating from you going forward, because that's what makes these forums great!
I assure that won't happen again.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
No we cant. I agree completely. We have no way to 'assert' that we are right. All we can say is that in our opinion so and so was better. and , if we know for sure or if there is written evidence, we may quote others who have commented on both (not one).
I have never claimed otherwise.
I think Imran is better but I dont expect you to agree with me and I have nothing to support my case accept my own judgement which cant be accepted as perfect.
By the way, the figures of their career peaks, which I have given are based on their deries wise stats taking a continuous period. Since ithas raised some mirth, I would suggest someone to suggest another peak for Wasim with a better result.
Secondly I did not mention the stats to prove anything. Since I was trying to look for players who had played both bowlers at their peak, I had to first determine a peak. Once I did that the stats were a natural by product of the excercise which I thought I might share with everyone. They are not given to prove anything and I dont think they do. They are fabulous figures for bth players and do not by them make the case of one or the other stronger.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Maybe...possible. You can try and do thatresearch
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
This is amazingly close. Opinion is almost split down the middle as to who was the better of these two great bowlers from Pakistan. Perhaps it is only fair that this should be so.
While Imran was right handed, bowled conventional inswing of the new ball, was a terror for a shorter time span, Wasim was left handed, unconventional (in his use of the crease, use of the over-the wicket line of attack etc), made the ball move awkwardy off the wicket and reverse swing sharply when old. His career lasted much longer and he kept getting smarter to compensate for the loss of the physical attributes of youth.
While Imran ranks amongst the finest fast bowlers in history most of whom have been right handed, Wasim is widely acknowledged as one of the two greatest lefthanded pacers of all time. The other being Davidson.
While Imran carried the burden of the Paksitani attack with lesser support at the other end (exceptSarfaraz for some time) Wasim made a deadly combination with Waqar. Wasim on the other hand played so many more one dayers and became one of the finest bowlers in that format of the game.
Difficult to separate and rank and so it shows in the poll results to date.
Its almost a tie.
While Imran was right handed, bowled conventional inswing of the new ball, was a terror for a shorter time span, Wasim was left handed, unconventional (in his use of the crease, use of the over-the wicket line of attack etc), made the ball move awkwardy off the wicket and reverse swing sharply when old. His career lasted much longer and he kept getting smarter to compensate for the loss of the physical attributes of youth.
While Imran ranks amongst the finest fast bowlers in history most of whom have been right handed, Wasim is widely acknowledged as one of the two greatest lefthanded pacers of all time. The other being Davidson.
While Imran carried the burden of the Paksitani attack with lesser support at the other end (exceptSarfaraz for some time) Wasim made a deadly combination with Waqar. Wasim on the other hand played so many more one dayers and became one of the finest bowlers in that format of the game.
Difficult to separate and rank and so it shows in the poll results to date.
Its almost a tie.