Piyush Chawla

[Manee]

Hahaha

BTW whatever happened to Amit Mishra?

Picked for India A to play South Africa A. Series starts on 13th September.

 

[Richard]

I really hate it when you judge bowlers based simply on what bowlers of their type from their country in previous years have done. It really follows no logic other than patterns that could easily be broken. Judge Chawla as Chawla and Rashid and Rashid - not as a continuation of the destinies lest behind by Kumble and Salisbury.

As I said when you accused me of this before - those patterns are not just random ones, things have happened the way they have for a reason.

 

[Richard]

You have to play a top class off spinner with a loop like that to find out how easy it is to make a fool of yourself. Its one of the most 'devious' deliveries in the game. Add to that a beautiful away floater and you are made to look a sucker.

Powar bowls a beautiful 'higher' flighted delivery too. Its something one hadn't seen before. It still lands perfectly and is very useful particularly with the tail. One of his away floaters moved like a leg break.

I enjoy the knowing look on his face. It reminds me a lot of Prasanna who knew when the batsmen were playing him by guesswork - which was most of the time. He is clearly in love with his art and this type of attitude in spinners makes for compulsive viewing.

Bedi and Prasanna come to mind.

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries, just as any fool can bowl a few fast, short ones.

Being able to bowl a (disguised) delivery that turns in the opposite direction to your stock-ball is an infinitely more useful variation than anything you can do with flight, though obviously the latter compliments use of turn well indeed.

Thing is, Harbhajan hardly lacks for variation-in-flight.

 

[vic_orthdox]

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries

Exhibit A for the prosecution.

 

[Pup Clarke]

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries, just as any fool can bowl a few fast, short ones.

Oh dear...

 

[Richard]

Exhibit A for the prosecution.

Go on, then, you're the best positioned - explain why it's so difficult.

 

[vic_orthdox]

To get the ball up above the eyeline of the batsman - forcing him to move his eyes, and possibly his head, upwards to watch the ball (and in doing so, making it harder for him to judge the ball) - whilst still getting the ball to drop quick enough (through the use of overspin) to ensure that it isn't just a "donkey drop" and that the batsman doesn't get to the pitch of the ball is a huge skill. Especially against batsman who move so quickly up and down the crease, like nearly all international players are capable of.

Then Powar combines this with enough sidespin to have the ball drifting away outside the head of the right hander, before spinning it enough (only need to spin it half a bat width - but he has the abilty to spin it further) to ensure that the batsman can't just throw his hands through the ball.

Try spinning the ball as hard as you can. You'll find that most people end up bowling flatter and faster in doing so, and often won't get any extra spin. Good off-spinners "spin up", as the term goes, and get the ball up and down as quickly as possible. This is completely different to just "throwing the ball up".

Don't think that what I've written is particularly coherent, but it is 3am.

 

[Swervy]

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries, just as any fool can bowl a few fast, short ones.

splendid.....

Here is what Ashley Mallett once said:


"(talking about playing vs India in 1969)....my mind turned back to the words of former spin genius, Clarrie Grimmett: ' If you were to stand upon a bridge overlooking a motorway, it would be possible to estimate the speed of an oncoming car. Yet if you stood on the road with the same vehicle appraoching at eye level, it would be virtually impossible to judge its speed
'The same principle is used in spin bowling'
It is far easier to detect the pitch and speed of a ball delivered at a trajectory below the level of the eye than one that is bowled at a line above eye level.
So I proceeded to commit a Test bowlers sin. I decided to experiment for a couple of balls. I banged a couple into the pitch, below eye level all the way, and spun them sharply.
Then came the crunch...My next ball was nicely flighed off break with th eperfect spinners trajectory. The ball started above eye level and dropped onto a perfect length.
The batsman lunged forward and edged the ball into the waiting hands of Ian Chappell at leg slip. He was non-pluessed as to where the ball would pitch which caused him to play well short of the ball.
This became my most important cricket lesson, one which I feel has had a great bearing on the general improvement in my bowling from that day on"

Grimmett and Mallett vs Richard on the virtues of flight when bowling off spin.
I know who I will listen to!!!

 

[Nishant]

Bowling loopy deliveries requires a courage IMO....and eventually gets u wickets which the type of bowler Powar is TBH....He seems very simple in what he is doing, which is a breath of fresh air IMO....lots of spinners these days are forgetting to do the simple things and so are punished for that. Powar is one bowler who knows his limitatations but also works to his strengths whcih is leading to success.

Its like when ur batting...id rather play a straight drive or a shot to mid-on than play a complicated reverse sweep and face the risk of top edging it or missing it completely!

 

[PhoenixFire]

Well Jack knows better than anyone on this topic (on this site), and what he says makes perfect sense,

 

[Swervy]

well I am looking forward to reading how Richard gets around this laughable comment

 

[PhoenixFire]

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries, just as any fool can bowl a few fast, short ones.

Having bowled spin for all the time I've played cricket, I can say that this certainly isn't the case. Accuracy is so much more difficult to get when you give the ball more air, just as it is more difficult for the batsman to read what the length will be. Also, the margin for error is much smaller, over pitch it, and it's a full toss, bowl it too short and it's going to be easy to cut.

 

[SJS]

People seem to rave over Powar's big loopiness - any fool can bowl loopy deliveries, just as any fool can bowl a few fast, short ones.

 

[SJS]

There is a HUGE difference between what is being called a big loopy delivery and a ball flighted so as to dip suddenly late in its trajectory. It requires a technique and a different bowling action than most off spinners have.

All spinners can bowl the 'big loopy' delivery if they want to (dont know about the fools though) but only a few special ones are able to master the delivery that seems to be this 'big loopy' delivery bowled bya fool but ends up making a fool of the batsman by dropping short.

Its the difference between Venkataraghavan and Prasanna.

Neither of them was a fool but Prasanna bowled a ball that seemed to be the 'big loopy' one but was somehow never quite there for the 'foolish' batsman who thought he was being offered 'manna from the skies'.

PS: It is easily the greatest weapon in a finger spinners armoury and probably the most difficult one to master. Another master, though not as good as Prasanna in this respect , was Bishen Bedi. Would be surprised if any fool could do that unless we agree that Prasanna and bedi were the two fools we know of amongst finger spinners.

 

[adharcric]

Richard, you asked for it.

 

[nightprowler10]

Haha, Richard getting pwned harder than usual.

@swervy, thank you for posting that piece by Mallett.

 

[honestbharani]

To get the ball up above the eyeline of the batsman - forcing him to move his eyes, and possibly his head, upwards to watch the ball (and in doing so, making it harder for him to judge the ball) - whilst still getting the ball to drop quick enough (through the use of overspin) to ensure that it isn't just a "donkey drop" and that the batsman doesn't get to the pitch of the ball is a huge skill. Especially against batsman who move so quickly up and down the crease, like nearly all international players are capable of.

Then Powar combines this with enough sidespin to have the ball drifting away outside the head of the right hander, before spinning it enough (only need to spin it half a bat width - but he has the abilty to spin it further) to ensure that the batsman can't just throw his hands through the ball.

Try spinning the ball as hard as you can. You'll find that most people end up bowling flatter and faster in doing so, and often won't get any extra spin. Good off-spinners "spin up", as the term goes, and get the ball up and down as quickly as possible. This is completely different to just "throwing the ball up".

Don't think that what I've written is particularly coherent, but it is 3am.

on the other hand, I think it is a wonderful description of the finger spinners' art... Should be given an Afridi for this, I think.



Too bad the awards aren't around now. I would vote that as a definite Afridi. We somehow tend to always award it to big long posts, but this one had more quality than some of the biggest posts I have seen (and written, tbh ) this week....

 

[silentstriker]

To defend Richard here, I don't think he was saying that loop is bad. He said that just the fact that he bowls loopy deliveries doesn't mean anything, if he doesn't do it well.

IMO, people are taking his comments to mean something they are not. He is just claiming that he is not convinced that he can bowl with that much flight and loop well at the international level consistently, especially when teams start to figure him out.

WIth that said, I do think that he is vastly underestimating Powar and way overestimating Harbhajan (who IMO is quite possibly the most overrated spinner of this decade). Yea, he can turn it the other way but he can't do much else and I have to disagree with Richard and say he does lack variation and deceptions in flight. Powar IMO is a much better bowler than Harbhajan, regardless of the doosra.

 

[honestbharani]

There is a HUGE difference between what is being called a big loopy delivery and a ball flighted so as to dip suddenly late in its trajectory. It requires a technique and a different bowling action than most off spinners have.

All spinners can bowl the 'big loopy' delivery if they want to (dont know about the fools though) but only a few special ones are able to master the delivery that seems to be this 'big loopy' delivery bowled bya fool but ends up making a fool of the batsman by dropping short.

Its the difference between Venkataraghavan and Prasanna.

Neither of them was a fool but Prasanna bowled a ball that seemed to be the 'big loopy' one but was somehow never quite there for the 'foolish' batsman who thought he was being offered 'manna from the skies'.

PS: It is easily the greatest weapon in a finger spinners armoury and probably the most difficult one to master. Another master, though not as good as Prasanna in this respect , was Bishen Bedi. Would be surprised if any fool could do that unless we agree that Prasanna and bedi were the two fools we know of amongst finger spinners.

Exactly. That was what I wanted to post as well, although it obviously wouldn't have been as wonderfully well put as SJS did.


The thing is, it is not the same thing just throwing the ball up in the air above the eyeline of the batsman and then getting him done in the flight... The first part is easy, the second part is really, really difficult. Even guys like WArne and Murali will and in fact, have, struggled to do that. Just throwing up balls may get you tailender wickets, but top batsmen will mostly easily put those away. You need skill to fox the batsman in the air USING that loop. It is what the old spinners in India used to call, controlling the ball with a rope. It would almost look like that if you see how a Prasanna or a Bedi or a Venkat got guys out of their crease and then forced them to either miscue the ball or simply miss it and then get them out that way. It is one of the most wonderful things to watch in a cricket game but unfortunately, it looks as though Powar is one of a dying species....

 

[honestbharani]

To defend Richard here, I don't think he was saying that loop is bad. He said that just the fact that he bowls loopy deliveries doesn't mean anything, if he doesn't do it well.

IMO, people are taking his comments to mean something they are not. He is just claiming that he is not convinced that he can bowl with that much flight and loop well at the international level consistently, especially when teams start to figure him out.

WIth that said, I do think that he is vastly underestimating Powar and way overestimating Harbhajan (who IMO is quite possibly the most overrated spinner of this decade). Yea, he can turn it the other way but he can't do much else and I have to disagree with Richard and say he does lack variation and deceptions in flight. Powar IMO is a much better bowler than Harbhajan, regardless of the doosra.

I don't doubt that Richard did mean it the way you did, but it also looked as though he was implying that it was all Powar was doing, which I think is not true.