*Official* English Football Season 2007-08

[Tom Halsey]

Gerrard wasn't helped last year by Benitez and this right-wing business, but essentially I agree he is a bit over-rated.

Though he's not a tenth as over-rated as Lampard is, obviously.

 

[roseboy64]

Corrected.

For one I don't pay attention to the British media much and seeing as I loathe all things Liverpool and still think he's great....

 

[Craig]

Watched Milan v Sevilla. Gun game, no way did Sevilla deserve to lose 3-1.

 

[1-9-7-7]

Sevilla are a strong side.
Hopefully they'll show what they can do in bigger stages of the Champions League this year.
Just gotta knock Athens out the way...

 

[Scaly piscine]

For one I don't pay attention to the British media much and seeing as I loathe all things Liverpool and still think he's great....

You don't have to pay much attention, watch any highlights, any live games, read any papers and you'll be bombarded with Gerrard hype. For most judging players is highly subjective and open to influences like media hype, the style someone has and so on.

 

[aussie]

Who gives a toss what they're like for their club if they're useless for England? Someone like Gerrard is massively over-rated anyway. As far I've seen Gerrard is just as mediocre for Liverpool as he is for England.

I can't believe how different cricket and football are when it comes to selection. England's selections in cricket are by no means perfect but they're leagues ahead of the football side. Going by your 'football' way of doing things: Ramprakash would have played well over 100 Tests, still averaging under 30. Collingwood would have never got close to international cricket. Jon Lewis and Kirtley would have led England's bowling attack to England's umpteenth consecutive Test series defeat since drawing at home to Bangladesh. That would be the reality of football's rubbish way of selecting teams translated to cricket.

You can't compare the basis of football selection from clubs to cricket from counties, states etc since its totally different. Come on man club football worldwide (mainly Europe & South America) is just as competitive than International football or even better at times. AC Milan, Barcelona & Manchester United are better than many international team. So if a bloke like Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard players who haven't been has prolific for England in recent times but who has been so consistent for Liverpool, Man U & Chelsea 3 of the best football teams in the world for such a long time picking him & expecting him to do well at international level should be expected. The problem is the management at international level i.e players playing out of position etc rather than their inablity to replicate that form. In case you haven't notice only English players (spain to a level) seem to have this problem, so clearly its no fault of theirs...

In cricket can you say any county, state, provincial team etc is better than any test nation?. When judging whether players can make the transition to the highest level after he has a good season is totally different. Look at county cricket someone like Ramprakash or even Hick still are dominating county attacks, geez Ramps is the leading run-scorer this season i think but we both know he won't cut it at international level given that the standard of bowling in CC is wayyyyyyyy below par what he would face from international attacks. Or bowlers like Martin Bicknell, Jon Lewis, Peter Martin, Ian Salisbury who have had good county records over the years but would make it as a top test bowler overall for obvious reasons

Its a different system in club football & county, state, provincial cricket etct when selecting players to play for International sides in both sports given the vast difference in the level of competition. So its useless to compare them yo.

 

[Matteh]

Martin Bicknell got Nick Knight out today, certainly not that bad.

 

[Craig]

Interesting transfers on deadline day:

Arsenal sign Chelsea midfielder Lassana Diarra, West Ham sign Henri Camara from Wigan and Nolberto Solano from Newcastle, Newcastle sign Habib Beye and Abdoulaye Faye, Middlesbrough sign Gary O'Neill from Portsmouth, he joined Egyptian Mohamed Shawky, Reading signed Liam Rosenior from Fulham with Seol Ki-Hyeon going in the other way, Danny Murphy also joined Fulham on loan for a year, Papa Bouba Diop has joined Glen Johnson as Portsmouth's other major signing, Curtis Davies (how good is he?) has left WBA to go to Aston Villa on loan with a view to a deal potentially worth up to £10m and the rest can be seen here: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=459211&cc=5739

 

[sledger]

quite a decent signing for arsenal one feels, but one also feels that they should have strengthened elsewhere rather than a position for which they already have a decent amount of cover.

 

[sledger]

You can't compare the basis of football selection from clubs to cricket from counties, states etc since its totally different. Come on man club football worldwide (mainly Europe & South America) is just as competitive than International football or even better at times. AC Milan, Barcelona & Manchester United are better than many international team. So if a bloke like Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard players who haven't been has prolific for England in recent times but who has been so consistent for Liverpool, Man U & Chelsea 3 of the best football teams in the world for such a long time picking him & expecting him to do well at international level should be expected. The problem is the management at international level i.e players playing out of position etc rather than their inablity to replicate that form. In case you haven't notice only English players (spain to a level) seem to have this problem, so clearly its no fault of theirs...

In cricket can you say any county, state, provincial team etc is better than any test nation?. When judging whether players can make the transition to the highest level after he has a good season is totally different. Look at county cricket someone like Ramprakash or even Hick still are dominating county attacks, geez Ramps is the leading run-scorer this season i think but we both know he won't cut it at international level given that the standard of bowling in CC is wayyyyyyyy below par what he would face from international attacks. Or bowlers like Martin Bicknell, Jon Lewis, Peter Martin, Ian Salisbury who have had good county records over the years but would make it as a top test bowler overall for obvious reasons

Its a different system in club football & county, state, provincial cricket etct when selecting players to play for International sides in both sports given the vast difference in the level of competition. So its useless to compare them yo.

interesting analysis, shame its wrong.

 

[sledger]

Who gives a toss what they're like for their club if they're useless for England?

yes agreed, although i would persevere with Gerrard, it would be Lampard and Ferdinand and Paul Robinson who would get the boot on this basis for me, not to mention Gary Neville.

 

[Scaly piscine]

You can't compare the basis of football selection from clubs to cricket from counties, states etc since its totally different. Come on man club football worldwide (mainly Europe & South America) is just as competitive than International football or even better at times. AC Milan, Barcelona & Manchester United are better than many international team. So if a bloke like Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard players who haven't been has prolific for England in recent times but who has been so consistent for Liverpool, Man U & Chelsea 3 of the best football teams in the world for such a long time picking him & expecting him to do well at international level should be expected. The problem is the management at international level i.e players playing out of position etc rather than their inablity to replicate that form. In case you haven't notice only English players (spain to a level) seem to have this problem, so clearly its no fault of theirs...

In cricket can you say any county, state, provincial team etc is better than any test nation?. When judging whether players can make the transition to the highest level after he has a good season is totally different. Look at county cricket someone like Ramprakash or even Hick still are dominating county attacks, geez Ramps is the leading run-scorer this season i think but we both know he won't cut it at international level given that the standard of bowling in CC is wayyyyyyyy below par what he would face from international attacks. Or bowlers like Martin Bicknell, Jon Lewis, Peter Martin, Ian Salisbury who have had good county records over the years but would make it as a top test bowler overall for obvious reasons

Its a different system in club football & county, state, provincial cricket etct when selecting players to play for International sides in both sports given the vast difference in the level of competition. So its useless to compare them yo.

Gerrard is mediocre at both levels as said already. Lampard has been up and down at both levels as has Rooney. In case you hadn't noticed only supremely hyped players seem to have the problem of being suspiciously poor or average at international level when they've been made out to be the best thing since sliced bread. If you look at players who don't get the hype - more defensive players generally - they hardly ever have the perceived discrepancy between their club performance and their international performance. The media hype creates a lot of the perceived discrepancy between performances for club and country.

 

[sledger]

Jamie Carragher for instance.

 

[steds]

I can't believe how different cricket and football are when it comes to selection. England's selections in cricket are by no means perfect but they're leagues ahead of the football side. Going by your 'football' way of doing things: Ramprakash would have played well over 100 Tests, still averaging under 30. Collingwood would have never got close to international cricket. Jon Lewis and Kirtley would have led England's bowling attack to England's umpteenth consecutive Test series defeat since drawing at home to Bangladesh. That would be the reality of football's rubbish way of selecting teams translated to cricket.

That's affected by nature of those two respective sports, though. The England cricket team in 2007 have 11 Tests, 34 ODIs and at least 5 Twenty20 internationals in their schedule, with only November containing no internationals. All the games are grouped together into tours during which a player's form can be gauged. The domestic off-season is sufficiently long enough to send promising players to the academy and on similar tours and see how they perform. In football the domestic season is nigh on all year round and there is less international football, meaning the only real way to judge a player is by how he's playing for his club.

 

[Scaly piscine]

That's affected by nature of those two respective sports, though. The England cricket team in 2007 have 11 Tests, 34 ODIs and at least 5 Twenty20 internationals in their schedule, with only November containing no internationals. All the games are grouped together into tours during which a player's form can be gauged. The domestic off-season is sufficiently long enough to send promising players to the academy and on similar tours and see how they perform. In football the domestic season is nigh on all year round and there is less international football, meaning the only real way to judge a player is by how he's playing for his club.

That might be true to an extent, but only to an extent. There are probably as many, if not more internationals played than there are Test matches. ODI and Twenty20 form isn't much of a factor when picking the Test side and there is tons of FC cricket just as there is tons of club football. The FC cricket is just as valuable as club football - FC cricket does have top class international players that you directly come up against.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

The FC cricket is just as valuable as club football - FC cricket does have top class international players that you directly come up against.

I fail to see how you can judge Flintoff's form for a run out in the County Championship, against just about every team as being the equivalent of Rooney's form in a top Premiership encounter. The league football played between the top sides in the league is probably of a similar or higher standard to international football. County Championship cricket is nowhere near the standard of Test cricket, because most of the best players in the world are playing Test cricket elsewhere in the world at the same time. High-class cricket is almost exclusively international; high-class football is not exclusively international. As simple as that.

 

[Craig]

interesting analysis, shame its wrong.

Haha scathing.

 

[grecian]

I fail to see how you can judge Flintoff's form for a run out in the County Championship, against just about every team as being the equivalent of Rooney's form in a top Premiership encounter. The league football played between the top sides in the league is probably of a similar or higher standard to international football. County Championship cricket is nowhere near the standard of Test cricket, because most of the best players in the world are playing Test cricket elsewhere in the world at the same time. High-class cricket is almost exclusively international; high-class football is not exclusively international. As simple as that.

Agree whole-heartedly, comparing sports is utterly specious. It could even be said that in the late stages of the Champions League (where Gerrard has excelled), is a higher standard then international football.

In Rugby and cricket, the only money is in internationals, in football the countries lag miles behind the clubs.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I fail to see how you can judge Flintoff's form for a run out in the County Championship, against just about every team as being the equivalent of Rooney's form in a top Premiership encounter. The league football played between the top sides in the league is probably of a similar or higher standard to international football. County Championship cricket is nowhere near the standard of Test cricket, because most of the best players in the world are playing Test cricket elsewhere in the world at the same time. High-class cricket is almost exclusively international; high-class football is not exclusively international. As simple as that.

Depends which countries are playing, but the CL or anything else doesn't come close to the standard in the World Cup finals. Also in England domestically the quality drops dramatically after the top two teams. You come up against top class bowlers and batsman in cricket - it is individual verus individual to a significant extent in cricket. You will face world class players in county cricket, not world class teams - but in cricket that doesn't matter so much.

 

[Tom Halsey]

interesting analysis, shame its wrong.