Your Country's Alltime XI

[sideshowtim]

True, but thats they key factor that may gave someone like Waugh or Border a slight edge over him. Not to say that Ponting if he had played in the same period as Waugh or Border when bowling attacks & the world wide was at a far higher quality & the wasn't so many flat decks than the period Ponting has dominated world bowling & acclaimed worldwide as the best batsman i.e 2001 to now he couldn't have achieved similar or greater success since he showed with his 156 @ old trafford that in testing conditions againts a quality attack if exposed to it enough he has the game to score runs (although some may argue that England's attack was as good as some of the 90's but thats a different argument all-together).

But that line of reasoning does not just go for Ponting it goes for other batsman (Kallis, Yousuf, Sehwag) who have come of age an dominated bowling attacks since 2000 when pitches worldwide became flatter & coincidentally top bowlers of the 90's retired & left only Australia for the most part since then the only side with a top-quality bowling attack.

Ponting & Kallis have been the two premier batsmen since 2000 (spare a thought for Dravid but stay with me on this) & if you compare them to the likes of Lara/Tendulkar one of the main reasons people would not rate then ahead of these two even though their averages may be higher than Lara & Tendy is because of the quality of bowling & standard of pitches which they were exposed to unlike Punter & Kallis. Thats why for me Kallis or Ponting especially are going to have to average in the very high 50's i.e 57-59 or 60 to nullify the effect of average bowling & flat pitches over the past 7 years.

In the end Punter will probably have all the batting records for Australia & Worldwide, but unless improvements are seen in bowling attacks consistently & pitches are so favourable to batsmen when picking an all-time aussie team or a simple all-time squad batsmen like Waugh, Lara, Tendulkar who as i said may not match up Ponting statistically by the time he retires they will always be ahead of him in selection since they have had in tougher than the patch-headed but superb tasmanian..

Well obviously the quality of bowling can't be that poor if Tendulkar and Lara struggled in this era comparably to the 90's....

 

[Pratters]

I knew It wouldn't be long till someone bought up India. Let's face it thought, his record everywhere else is outstanding, his record in India is a mere abberation.

Plus, yeah, Ponting has pretty much achieved a crap load more than Waugh with the bat anyway you look at it, mate. It took Waugh 156 tests to get 32 Test tons...Ponting reached that feat in 100-something....And how can you say Waugh was a better captain when he has a worse record than Ponting yet had a far better side under him?

Plus, you just have to watch Ponting bat to know he deserves his place in the annals of Australian cricket. He can play every stroke in any situation. He's a mastermind. Get off your god damn high horses and accept that Ponting is not only a great batsman but a great leader too. Christ.

Your devotion has brought tears to my eyes.

 

[sideshowtim]

Don't see how it's ridiculous at all really, you are aware that there is over 100 years of rich Australian cricket history, not just the past 10 or so you have been watching for. To have Chappell, Harvey, Waugh or Border ahead of him really isn't ridiculous at all, especially with his career far from over.

Edit: Would even mention McCabe for a middle order position in the first XI, or second XI at least.

Oh get your hand off it. Just take a look at Ponting's record. Just watch him play a god damn innings and you'll see why he deserves a spot in the all-time Australian XI. He has matured remarkably as a batsman. When will people overcome their anti-Ponting complex?

He's someone Aussie fans don't appreciate enough, that's for sure. You're gonna miss him like hell when he's gone you ingrateful....

 

[sideshowtim]

True, but thats they key factor that may gave someone like Waugh or Border a slight edge over him. Not to say that Ponting if he had played in the same period as Waugh or Border when bowling attacks & the world wide was at a far higher quality & the wasn't so many flat decks than the period Ponting has dominated world bowling & acclaimed worldwide as the best batsman i.e 2001 to now he couldn't have achieved similar or greater success since he showed with his 156 @ old trafford that in testing conditions againts a quality attack if exposed to it enough he has the game to score runs (although some may argue that England's attack was as good as some of the 90's but thats a different argument all-together).

But that line of reasoning does not just go for Ponting it goes for other batsman (Kallis, Yousuf, Sehwag) who have come of age an dominated bowling attacks since 2000 when pitches worldwide became flatter & coincidentally top bowlers of the 90's retired & left only Australia for the most part since then the only side with a top-quality bowling attack.

Ponting & Kallis have been the two premier batsmen since 2000 (spare a thought for Dravid but stay with me on this) & if you compare them to the likes of Lara/Tendulkar one of the main reasons people would not rate then ahead of these two even though their averages may be higher than Lara & Tendy is because of the quality of bowling & standard of pitches which they were exposed to unlike Punter & Kallis. Thats why for me Kallis or Ponting especially are going to have to average in the very high 50's i.e 57-59 or 60 to nullify the effect of average bowling & flat pitches over the past 7 years.

Ponting averages 65.5 since the turn of the milennium. Good enough for you?

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

 

[Prince EWS]

Well obviously the quality of bowling can't be that poor if Tendulkar and Lara struggled in this era comparably to the 90's....

That'd make perfect sense in a world where decline did not exist. As you yourself mentioned in regards to Ponting, you just have to see the bowling recently compared to ten years ago to know it is far, far inferior.

 

[pasag]

Oh get your hand off it. Just take a look at Ponting's record. Just watch him play a god damn innings and you'll see why he deserves a spot in the all-time Australian XI. He has matured remarkably as a batsman. When will people overcome their anti-Ponting complex?

He's someone Aussie fans don't appreciate enough, that's for sure. You're gonna miss him like hell when he's gone you ingrateful....

Haha anti-Ponting complex? He's one of, if not my favourite player. However I'm not so short sighted and don't have such a bias against history to start yelling from the roof tops whenever someone does well on the international curcuit, especially with today's bowling attacks and the brilliant players of the past. Your bias on the matter and in general is clear though and I'd take ALL your opinions on cricket with a massive grain of salt.

 

[sideshowtim]

Haha anti-Ponting complex? He's one of, if not my favourite player. However I'm not so short sighted and don't have such a bias against history to start yelling from the roof tops whenever someone does well on the international curcuit, especially with today's bowling attacks and the brilliant players of the past. Your bias on the matter and in general is clear though and I'd take ALL your opinions on cricket with a massive grain of salt.

Tell me Good Sir, just WHAT THE HELL does Ponting have to do to be rated one of the countries finest ever batsmen? I would just LOVE to know.

 

[pasag]

Tell me Good Sir, just WHAT THE HELL does Ponting have to do to be rated one of the countries finest ever batsmen? I would just LOVE to know.

Who said he isn't? He's a brilliant player and currently the best batsman in both forms of the game. But we have over 100 years of brilliant players and I'm not ready to rate him over them, especially when he still has alot longer in his career to go.

You seem to think that not making an XI is somehow a blight on him and it detracts from how good he is, what I'm trying to tell you is that it shows how great our batsman of the past have been and how hard it is to crack those positions in an all-time XI. In answer to your question, if he continues the way he has been over the last two years for another 3/4, then I'd have no problem putting him in there at the end of his career and even calling him the best Aussie batsman since Bradman.

 

[sideshowtim]

Who said he isn't? He's a brilliant player and currently the best batsman in both forms of the game. But we have over 100 years of brilliant players and I'm not ready to rate him over them, especially when he still has alot longer in his career to go.

You seem to think that not making an XI is somehow a blight on him and it detracts from how good he is, what I'm trying to tell you is that it shows how great our batsman of the past have been and how hard it is to crack those positions in an all-time XI. In answer to your question, if he continues the way he has been over the last two years for another 3/4, then I'd have no problem putting him in there at the end of his career and even calling him the best Aussie batsman since Bradman.

Averaging 65 over the last 7 years...how much more consistent does he have to be, honestly? Has any player bar Bradman averaged 65 for ten years? I just get the impression that whatever he does will never be enough. No matter how many runs or centuries he scores people will drag out "Oh, it was a terrible era of bowling, he had it easy!"...Despite the fact he averages a full 5 runs ahead of any other batsman this decade...

I don't deny we have a magnificent cricketing history, but Ponting is thoroughly a part of that history and his performances when we need him the most in recent years...I struggle to see how he isn't deserving of a place in the Top 6 batsmen in Australian test history...

 

[pasag]

Averaging 65 over the last 7 years...how much more consistent does he have to be, honestly? Has any player bar Bradman averaged 65 for ten years? I just get the impression that whatever he does will never be enough. No matter how many runs or centuries he scores people will drag out "Oh, it was a terrible era of bowling, he had it easy!"...Despite the fact he averages a full 5 runs ahead of any other batsman this decade...

I don't deny we have a magnificent cricketing history, but Ponting is thoroughly a part of that history and his performances when we need him the most in recent years...I struggle to see how he isn't deserving of a place in the Top 6 batsmen in Australian test history...

Forget the "how much more consistent does he have to be?" stuff, as I said before he's a great batsman, that's not the question here. Quite simply it boils down to, is he good enough to dislodge Chappell, Harvey, Waugh, Border or anyone else in a posters XI that you questioned with your first post in the thread from their places in the side? That's the real question here. Now in many people's opinions, no or at least not till the end of his career. Does that make Ponting not a great? No it doesn't, not at all and it is not a slight on him in the smallest, as I said, it's a testament to the Australian side throughout history.

 

[sideshowtim]

Yes, He is good enough. Did any of those batsmen average a full 5 runs more over a 7 year period than the next best in their era?

 

[nightprowler10]

Hmm i don't know, but based on what i saw of Laif & Moin i certainly would pick Moin. But i guess that would be a matter of personal preference.

Yeah, personally I thought Latif was a better keeper and average is almost the same as Moin so it was a relatively easy choice for me.

 

[Pratters]

Yes, He is good enough. Did any of those batsmen average a full 5 runs more over a 7 year period than the next best in their era?

Ponting doesnt btw. I am not arguing for or against Ponting, just pointing a flaw - Yousuf averages 62 from 2000 onwards. BTW, if we take 2001 onwards, Yousuf averages 65.

 

[sideshowtim]

Ponting doesnt btw. I am not arguing for or against Ponting, just pointing a flaw - Yousuf averages 62 from 2000 onwards. BTW, if we take 2001 onwards, Yousuf averages 65.

My mistake. 3.5 runs is still a large deviation though, as the higher the average gets the harder it gets to maintain. And no, sorry, we're not going from 2001 because 2000 is the turn of the century.

 

[The Sean]

Yeah, good point. My revised XI then:

Pakistan:

Saeed Anwar
Haneef Muhammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzamam-Ul-Haq
Imran Khan*
Rashid Latif+
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis
Fazal Mahmood

What about Mushtaq Muhammed? He would strengthen the batting at no.6 and also provide a good second spinning option, leaving a team that looked something like this...

Hanif Mohammad
Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul-Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Wasim Bari
Waqar Younis
Abdul Qadir

 

[roseboy64]

West Indies

Test:

Gordon Greenidge
Desmond Haynes
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
George Headley
Garfield Sobers
Jeffrey Dujon
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Joel Garner
Courtney Walsh

Probably gonna get slated for Walsh but he deserves to be there for mine with only Holding and Gibbs in contention for that spot IMO.

 

[adharcric]

Holding > Walsh. Walsh is underrated by some who think that he just played forever (he was actually quite good) and overrated by others who don't realize that he got that many wickets partially because he played forever. He was very good but just misses out on an all-time WI XI IMO.

 

[Pratters]

Yes, He is good enough. Did any of those batsmen average a full 5 runs more over a 7 year period than the next best in their era?

Steve Waugh averaged 60.5 over a 7 year period against better bowlers. Simply, there have been many great players in Australian cricket and because Ponting has been superb does not mean that he is a walk in into an Australian All time XI like say Bradman is.

 

[The Sean]

Holding > Walsh. Walsh is underrated by some who think that he just played forever (he was actually quite good) and overrated by others who don't realize that he got that many wickets partially because he played forever. He was very good but just misses out on an all-time WI XI IMO.

Aside from changing "quite" good to "very" good, I agree with all of that.

 

[sideshowtim]

Steve Waugh averaged 60.5 over a 7 year period against better bowlers. Simply, there have been many great players in Australian cricket and because Ponting has been superb does not mean that he is a walk in into an Australian All time XI like say Bradman is.

Ponting's extra 5 runs puts them on an even keel. Any other batsmen from Australia who have achieved the same kind of consistency? If not, I can't see why Ponting isn't deserving of a place.