***Official*** India in England

[Pup Clarke]

. If you think that was a poor spell of bowling, not sure what you would call some of the more recent bowling performances by England.

Diabolical.

 

[open365]

I think that is harsh. Yes the odd time he did stray a little too short, but his plan is clear, to push the batter back and then throw the odd ball up there for him to drive while his weight is still back, or go for a bowled/lbw. Thought his consistent length was a troublesome length. Ask Ganguly about his finger, struck from a ball just short of a good length into the rib area.

Throw the odd ball up? Out two days worth of bowling he bowled 3 deliveries that would have hit the stumps!

I know a few of them could be full and outside off but from what i saw (10 overs worth) i only saw one full ball (the Dravid LBW) and the rest was back of a length outside off.

I'm not saying he bowled crap, far from it (I have acctualy been quite impressed with what i've seen) but bowling that line and length imo is negative. With Tremlett's height i think he should push it up to that bat a bit more and force the batsman to play, or at least get it in the corridor of uncertainty.

For mine Tremlet was giving India a bit of an easy ride with the amount of balls outside off he bowled, a bowler like him imo would be best used in a more attacking way because of the bounce he can get.

Not that i'm neccesarily criticising Tremlet, it may have been a team plan for him to bowl like that, either way though i think tommorow with the situation of the game he should be a big threat if used properly.

 

[Woodster]

Throw the odd ball up? Out two days worth of bowling he bowled 3 deliveries that would have hit the stumps!

Yes, but as was said in the Sky commentary, how many of Glenn Mcgraths deliveries are hitting the stumps. He doesn't look at bowling someone as his main mode of dismissal. Yes I agree it is worth perhaps trying more at the stumps or a generally fuller length, but the sheer size of him and the height the ball is coming down from, for him to be hitting the stumps it has to be almost half volley length or a good driving length. I like his back of a length, and if there happens to be any variable bounce around tomorrow he will be cause problems.

 

[open365]

Glen McGrath may have not hit the stumps very often, but he always put the ball in a place that tempted the batsman into playing at it, Tremlet gives the batsmen easy decisions because he puts it in an area where the batsman will instinctively know he doesn't have to play at it.

 

[silentstriker]

Yes, but as was said in the Sky commentary, how many of Glenn Mcgraths deliveries are hitting the stumps. He doesn't look at bowling someone as his main mode of dismissal. Yes I agree it is worth perhaps trying more at the stumps or a generally fuller length, but the sheer size of him and the height the ball is coming down from, for him to be hitting the stumps it has to be almost half volley length or a good driving length. I like his back of a length, and if there happens to be any variable bounce around tomorrow he will be cause problems.

Actually, Glenn McGrath's mode of dismissal for deliveries that hit or would have hit the stumps (LBW + bowled) is about the same percentage as Lillee (slightly higher than Lillee really).

 

[Woodster]

Glen McGrath may have not hit the stumps very often, but he always put the ball in a place that tempted the batsman into playing at it, Tremlet gives the batsmen easy decisions because he puts it in an area where the batsman will instinctively know he doesn't have to play at it.

I agree, it is a slightly unfair comparison as Mcgrath was a world class bowler and Tremlett is in his First Test. I am sure he will be aware that he allowed them to let a few go through too many, but I am encouraged by his performance, I certainly do not class it as a poor spell of bowling.

 

[Woodster]

Actually, Glenn McGrath's mode of dismissal for deliveries that hit or would have hit the stumps (LBW + bowled) is about the same percentage as Lillee (slightly higher than Lillee really).

But you cannot say Mcgrath regularly peppered the stumps. He will have learnt when to lure batsman in to playing round their pad, or sneaking one through their defences, but in general his area was just outside off and on a very difficult length to drive, or go back to with any real conviction.

 

[Richard]

As I've been saying, this is make or break for Tendulkar. Dravid is also on the downturn one feels, and his form hasn't been too good lately.

Ganguly, oddly enough, might have the most left, but even that isn't much IMO. Laxman just looks like a shadow of himself as I've mentioned earlier. I feel a major revamp coming on in the next two years.

Top post. What I don't understand is why the commentators keep going on about how good this batting line up is?. Can't they see that especially Laxman and Ganguly are miles past their prime and Tendulkar and possibly Dravid aren't far behind. Add to that an insecure opening pair and an unreliable MS Dhoni and we realise that this "great" batting line up has alot of fralities, especially against the swinging and moving ball.

Agreed, sometimes it's like te commentators haven't been following world cricket for the past 2 years the way they talk.

I agree with Liam and Bowman in that some of the (radio) commentary today bordered on the embarrasing, and sounded as if no attention at all had been paid to the last 3 years (at least).

However, I'm still very much hoping all of The Big Four, especially Laxman (who's 31 FFS!! He should be right in his prime!) still have plenty in them. It is still a phenominal batting-line-up, and while it's obviously not as good as in 2002 and 2003 (and probably never will be again) it's still one I'd take over most others.

As ss said, Ganguly has certainly looked the best this game, indeed he's looked in superb touch to me, and only an absolutely brilliant piece of bowling has dislodged him so far. And I'm certainly not willing to even contemplate writing Dravid's obituary yet, he's always been someone who can come sensationally good at any time. He did nothing wrong in the first-innings, that was just another brilliant piece of bowling, and I haven't watched his second-innings dismissal yet. I didn't think he was too below-par in SA, either, in fact (like Tendulkar) combatted some excellent bowling on tricky surfaces reasonably well.

 

[silentstriker]

Well let's go through the batting line up, and my opinion on each of them:

Opening: Sehwag, Gambhir, Jaffer, Karthik

Traditionally has been weak, but there was a period of hope when Sehwag was in form but even then, there was no one who the selectors had faith in on the other side (Chopra would have been nice and should have been given more chances). Now, Sehwag has fallen away. His second innings record, even in his prime, is horrendous. Not bad, but horrendous. He made it up with his first innings scores for a while, but no longer. His technique meant that he was always going to struggle when things got tough and he needed to bunker down to fight his way through great bowling or through his own dip in the form. I really don't see this situation improving any time soon.

Gambhir and Jaffer are old fashioned flat track bullies, plain and simple. Gambhir needs to have his leg amputated, as he can't seem to use it properly. Jaffer made a big score, and makes some here and there, but largely looks out of sorts against quality bowling in bowling frinedly conditions. Not what you want from an opener. Karthik is doing well, and I hope he continues to do well as his positive intent is a breath of fresh air amongst all the all curmudgeons infesting the rest of the batting line up, but I don't think he is a long term solution there. I firmly believe it is a specialist position, and while I support him being there as long as he continues to score, I don't really have the faith that he'll be opening two years down the road.

#3: Dravid

The position is his obviously for the foreseeable future. But he is not young anymore, and whenever someone is out of form like he is now at his age, the questions must be asked if he is starting to be past it. Obviously too early to make that call now, but he is the rock that the rest of the batting line up revolves around, and he is desperately needed in the short and medium term.

#4: Tendulkar

Past it, and has been past it for a while. He shows some sparks from time to time, and gets starts often enough, but cannot convert them. Can he contribute still? Maybe, but I have to start wondering if there is no one in India who can score more than him. I said before and I'll say it again: this tour is make or break. India could use his experience, but cannot afford to take someone of his current form to Australia. If he gets going in England, good for him and good for India. Otherwise, it is time to move on. He won't be dropped, but maybe he needs to decide to retire for himself. Selectors need to tell him this frankly. He has ridden on his reputation too long, and while Lara averaged 38 between 1996-1999, Tendulkar's form is worse. And he looks to be a mere shadow of his past self.


#5: Ganguly

Ah, the guy who is easily the worst Test player of the middle order is outshining the rest of them, even though he is clearly not playing at his best. Yes, that's how bad it has gotten for the rest of the middle order. Full credit to Ganguly for proving me wrong, and I am impressed at his conviction. The man never lacked fight, and he is showing it right now. He is full of technical holes and was never a great Test player, but he is becoming the one guy you can count on to at least deliver a few runs. Good for him, and I hope he keeps it up. But even a this best, Ganguly is hardly anything more than a 'good' Test player.

#6: Laxman

Well Laxman IMO was never really part of the 'star-studded' batting lineup. He has a knack for playing a sublime innings in between a whole load of crap. Against Australia he turns it on, but against everyone else, barring the odd knock here or there, he is quite ordinary. And has always been that way. Considering his fielding and running, I don't really care much if he is in the side at all.

#7: Dhoni

Mumbai 2006. Enough said? To jar your memory, those two shots were the most irresponsible and dumb-headed moves on a cricket field in a long long time. Not only did he advance down the track once when India were fighting for a draw...he did it again thirty seconds later, and admitted that 'pressure...it does things to you.' Thanks for admitting the choke-job Mr. Dhoni, at least you're honest about yourself. He is a fine one day player, and might be fine in India, but is a walking liability in unfriendly condition. Plus his keeping is not top class. He is there because of his batting, and that's clearly not up to Test standard outside the subcontinent. In the end though, even if I would like a better keeper who can contribute with the bat and can hang around with the tail or provide support to the top order, he is not the biggest worry.

Best lineup in the world? No. Second best? No. In fact, on form, and not reputation, it is as bad as the WI line up. Except no one is in the form Chanderpaul was.

 

[Richard]

#6: Laxman

Well Laxman IMO was never really part of the 'star-studded' batting lineup. He has a knack for playing a sublime innings in between a whole load of crap. Against Australia he turns it on, but against everyone else, barring the odd knock here or there, he is quite ordinary. And has always been that way. Considering his fielding and running, I don't really care much if he is in the side at all.

Totally disagree. This is far more than "the odd sublime innings in between a whole load of crap". OK, it's no longer the greater part of his career but it's long enough for him to have been part of one hell of a superb batting-line-up. Even the rest, while certainly far from impressive, is not disgraceful either.

What you have against him as a Test fielder, either, I don't know. He's a superb catcher at second-slip and silly-point.

 

[open365]

Good post SS.

 

[adharcric]

As I've been saying, this is make or break for Tendulkar. Dravid is also on the downturn one feels, and his form hasn't been too good lately.

Ganguly, oddly enough, might have the most left, but even that isn't much IMO. Laxman just looks like a shadow of himself as I've mentioned earlier. I feel a major revamp coming on in the next two years.

Dravid got a poor decision in our previous test in South Africa and another one here. Nevertheless, I agree. Getting worried about all four of them.

 

[sideshowtim]

I think people getting worried about Dravid...have nothing to worry about really. As much as I hate to say it, he's one of the most consistent blokes in world cricket, and with his technique, if you're out of form, it's not for very long. His technique is a near foolproof one...

 

[Turbinator]

Man I fell asleep after the match, and woke up right now, and had the craziest dream I swear. We won, and there on the Lord's balcony, Dravid waving his shirt around furiously much like Ganguly in 2002.

Really badly want it to come true... , this Test match means a lot to me atm as it does to a lot of other Indian fans. Because what a win it would be.

 

[Richard]

Maybe it's my naturally sadistic side, but I'm almost keen on seeing you(r posting) when we win this Test, As. I'm wondering what the sad and disappointed version of you is like.













(NO, THIS POST WAS NOT IN ANY WAY A PREDICTION!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Richard]

As much as I hate to say it, he's one of the most consistent blokes in world cricket

Why do you hate to say it? Does it really pain you to praise in any way someone who's not Aussie?

 

[Raghav]

Pieterson innings was really a class act.

 

[adharcric]

Maybe it's my naturally sadistic side, but I'm almost keen on seeing you(r posting) when we win this Test, As. I'm wondering what the sad and disappointed version of you is like.

He'd probably throw in a few s, a few s, disappear in depression for a day and come back to his "Tipu" ways for the second test.

 

[chipmonk]

Maybe it's my naturally sadistic side, but I'm almost keen on seeing you(r posting) when we win this Test, As. I'm wondering what the sad and disappointed version of you is like.



Have a heart Rich ...... lol
Maybe you should check out what he did When India got kicked out of the WC.









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[Richard]

I was pretty sad about that too, TBH. And the WC in-match threads moved way, way, way, way too fast for me, really.