Kallis vs. Botham as an allrounder

[Days of Grace]

I would be so pissed off if I got out for 499. I would still have nightmares about the delivery that got me.

Anyway, Pollock averages about 33 with the bat, and bats at no.8 because Boucher bats ahead of him.

 

[Fiery]

I would be so pissed off if I got out for 499. I would still have nightmares about the delivery that got me.

He was run out actually

 

[Perm]

He was run out actually

Even worse.

 

[Fiery]

Even worse.

Yeah, reminds me of Dipak Patel's 99 run out actually.

 

[Perm]

Yeah, reminds me of Crowe's 299 and Dipak Patel's 99 run outs actually

Just on a much bigger scale, sort of. Score higher, but it wasn't a Test match.

 

[Fiery]

Just on a much bigger scale, sort of. Score higher, but it wasn't a Test match.

Damn, you caught my quote about Crowe . Was thinking he was runout but remembered he was caught behind

 

[Xuhaib]

He was run out actually

The last ball of the match.

 

[Fiery]

The last ball of the match.

I didn't know that

 

[bagapath]

just found out that botham has taken 15 five wicket hauls in england victories. he has scored 8 centuries in matches that have resulted in england wins as well.

kallis has scored 11 centuries (this is excluding matches against zim and ban) in winning causes. and i dont know how many five wicket hauls of his (he has taken four) resulted in SA wins.

i am not making a point here since the data i am giving is incomplete. but just sharing my amazement at beefy's achievements. there is no other cricketer among the top 50 of both the charts (most centuries in wins and most 5 wicket hauls in wins)

 

[Fiery]

just found out that botham has taken 15 five wicket hauls in england victories. he has scored 8 centuries in matches that have resulted in england wins as well.

kallis has scored 11 centuries (this is excluding matches against zim and ban) in winning causes. and i dont know how many five wicket hauls of his (he has taken four) resulted in SA wins.

i am not making a point here since the data i am giving is incomplete. but just sharing my amazement at beefy's achievements. there is no other cricketer among the top 50 of both the charts (most centuries in wins and most 5 wicket hauls in wins)

He was a true great alright. I would rate him above Kallis

 

[bagapath]

kallis has 2 five wicket hauls in SA wins. (and 1 more against bangladesh)

 

[grant28]

botham far better, i tend to look at kallis as a batsman who bowls a bit, i know many of you will disagree

 

[Days of Grace]

For a batsman who bowls just 'a bit', to take almost 250 test wickets is no mean feat.

 

[aussie tragic]

For a batsman who bowls just 'a bit', to take almost 250 test wickets is no mean feat.

Kallis has taken 213 wkts in 107 tests, so at that rate it'll take him another 19 tests before he reaches 250 wkts....besides that's like saying Shane Warne is a good batsman 'cause he made over 3000 runs (it took him 145 tests, or just over 21 runs per test)

 

[Days of Grace]

Yes, but Warne averaged 17 with the bat, whilst Kallis averages a much more respectable 31 with the ball.

 

[Swervy]

Yes, but Warne averaged 17 with the bat, whilst Kallis averages a much more respectable 31 with the ball.

but there seems to be this thing that Kallis bowls when it suits him, hardly a trait of a genuine all rounder

 

[Days of Grace]

but there seems to be this thing that Kallis bowls when it suits him, hardly a trait of a genuine all rounder

Where is your evidence?

 

[Dasa]

but there seems to be this thing that Kallis bowls when it suits him, hardly a trait of a genuine all rounder

I don't believe that myself.

 

[Swervy]

Where is your evidence?

none really, its just something that has been mentioned before.

Although there are a high proportion of innings in his test career where he hasnt bowled, again, surely if you are a genuine all rounder. you play the role of all rounder i.e. you bowl as if you are a main bowler

 

[Days of Grace]

Not really. Many of the 'great' allrounders were not exactly the 'main' bowlers in their teams. Sobers was for a brief period of time, as well as Cairns. Greig I don't think was ever a 'main' bowler.

Also, if you are a bowling allrounder, then it is unlikely you will bat above no.6 in your team's batting order.

How many of the great allrounders batted in the top five AND were one of the first three bowlers for their teams?

Sobers, Botham (top five?), Kallis and Imran are the only four I can think of.