Kallis vs. Botham as an allrounder

[short shorts]

Gavaskar has opened both the batting as well as bowling for India, that hardly makes him the greatest all-rounder ever Team composition plays an important role. I daresay Kallis would have batted in the top 5 and bowled in the first 3 for almost any team of his time, Botham and Imran wouldn't have batted top 5 for many teams. And when I say Botham, I mean alltime Botham, lard and all, not selective good-phase-only-because-it-suits-my-argument Botham.

 

[The Sean]

Not really. Many of the 'great' allrounders were not exactly the 'main' bowlers in their teams. Sobers was for a brief period of time, as well as Cairns. Greig I don't think was ever a 'main' bowler.

Also, if you are a bowling allrounder, then it is unlikely you will bat above no.6 in your team's batting order.

How many of the great allrounders batted in the top five AND were one of the first three bowlers for their teams?

Sobers, Botham (top five?), Kallis and Imran are the only four I can think of.

Keith Miller. Usually took the new ball with Lindwall and spent most of his career batting at no. 4 or 5. Even spent a couple of series batting at no.3.

Kallis is frequently not among the first 3 bowlers for South Africa, and I always thought of Botham and Imran as no.6-7 type batsmen more than top 5.

 

[Swervy]

Not really. Many of the 'great' allrounders were not exactly the 'main' bowlers in their teams. Sobers was for a brief period of time, as well as Cairns. Greig I don't think was ever a 'main' bowler.

Also, if you are a bowling allrounder, then it is unlikely you will bat above no.6 in your team's batting order.

How many of the great allrounders batted in the top five AND were one of the first three bowlers for their teams?

Sobers, Botham (top five?), Kallis and Imran are the only four I can think of.

Botham was good enough to play at number 5 , I can say that with no problems whatsoever.(He averaged over 50 at number 5) Most of the time, the team composition and his style of play dictated that 6 was best for him though.

Botham could have gotten into the team based on his batting OR bowling. Thats the big difference between him and Kallis

 

[PhoenixFire]

Keith Miller. Usually took the new ball with Lindwall and spent most of his career batting at no. 4 or 5. Even spent a couple of series batting at no.3.

Kallis is frequently not among the first 3 bowlers for South Africa, and I always thought of Botham and Imran as no.6-7 type batsmen more than top 5.

Both Imran and Botham could have batted higher up the order, and Imran proved this by going higher up the order towards the end of his career. I'm sure Beefy would have done a fine job had be he gone higher up the order.

 

[The Sean]

Both Imran and Botham could have batted higher up the order, and Imran proved this by going higher up the order towards the end of his career. I'm sure Beefy would have done a fine job had be he gone higher up the order.

I'm sure they could have, no question. I was simply saying that as far as I remembered, they usually batted at 6 or 7. Both definitely had the ability, as Swervy said before that ITB averaged 50+ at no.5, which is a magnificent effort. Imran hardly ever batted in the top 5, but he did have a superb record at no.6.

 

[iamdavid]

Is it just me or has Kallis's bowling steadily deteriorated throughout his carear, particularly since about the time of the 2002 series against Australia...
I know he was never a world-beater with the ball but I recall him being a far more reliable and consistent threat in the earlier years infact even taking the new ball now and then when AD was injured.
Taking a look at his test stats backs this up a little -
1998 - 24 wickets @31
1999 - 22 wickets @25
2000 - 17 wickets @33
2001 - 35 wickets @26
2002 - 31 wickets @26

Those are pretty solid numbers for someone who plays primarily as a batsman, certainly worthy of more than 'part-timer' or backup seamer status, he could always be relied upon to do a job, but from there on in -

2003 - 19 wickets @38
2004 - 12 wickets @48
2005 - 20 wickets @39
2006 - 15 wickets @32

I remember in about 2001 everybody spoke of Kallis as a genuine allrounder but nowdays nobody kids themselves that he's more than a batsman whose good for a coupla overs, had he combined the bowling form of the first half of his carear (ie bowling average of about 27) with the batting average of 55 then I reckon it'd be hard to argue against him, but given that he's not really a true allrounder anymore I'd go for Botham.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I was always of the opinion that Kallis could have been a top class seamer if he really wanted to push himself and become an allrounder. Over the last couple of years we've seen less and less of his bowling which is a crying shame imo as he all the attributes to be very good. He's reasonably accurate, bowls an extremely heavy ball and was (still can be) genuinely quick. I imagine he just devote the same time to his bowling as to batting.

 

[Dasa]

Kallis has looked considerably better with the ball in the last couple of series he's played than he has for a long time. For a long period he wasn't much of a threat though.

 

[Redsok]

I'd have to go with Kallis for batting, as you say. But bowling it's tight. Botham took far more wickets in a similar number of tests, but then again he did bowl Nearly 8000 more balls than Kallis.

Argghh I'll go with Kallis for this one.

"BOWLING IS TIGHT"?? TIGHT? REALLY?


LMFAO



Botham was the Fastest player to reach 1000 Test Runs and 100 Test Wickets. He did it in 21 games.. He was England's best bowler and also the most game changing batsman.

Wankhede 1980 is possibly the greatest feat by any cricketer. Just Ian Botham being Ian Botham..

In Botham's first 25 Tests, he scored 6 hundreds and took 140 wickets. **14 5-wicket hauls and 3 10-wicket hauls. Then scored runs for fun, including centuries after centuries..

But the man played too many games, and did too much for the team.. with extremely long spells. He was never the same since that back injury.







Some of you millennials really don't know jack ****.. Yikes

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah you ****ing snowflakes.