Why the hypocrisy on Zimbabwe ?

[Sanz]

OK Sanz, you've convinced me

Despite all evidence to the contrary, Zimbabwe and China are the same and any approach to them must be "consistent."

It's irrelevant that one or both of these strategies is doomed to certain failure because "consistency" is what's important

It's irrelevant that Australia will bear most of the negative impact from these strategies because "consistency" is what's important

I'm really glad you cleared that up because being consistent is so much easier than actually being part of the solution

If you take a stand on morality, then be consistent. If you flip-flop your stand based on the positives/Negative effect on your country, then it doesn't remain a moral stand, it becomes a hypocritical, opportunistic and populist stand.

 

[Langeveldt]

Apparently the compensation money will go to Mugabe's Zimbabwe Cricket setup, if the tour doesn't go ahead..

Imagine handing 2 million dollars over to Mr Mugabe without even doing anything...

Even more need for this tour to actually happen, if the above is the case..

 

[social]

And the point is ? That's a useless link, here is a rebuttal for that - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/story/293271.html

That said, I am not debating whether Australia tours Zimbabwe or not, but just pointing out the Hypocrisy which you are defending and while doing so posting mostly incorrect information.

Hardly a rebuttal - it's more a supporting argument

 

[social]

Apparently the compensation money will go to Mugabe's Zimbabwe Cricket setup, if the tour doesn't go ahead..

Imagine handing 2 million dollars over to Mr Mugabe without even doing anything...

Even more need for this tour to actually happen, if the above is the case..

Either dont pay the fine or look for a legal loop-hole (which the govt has announced they'll be doing in the form of security warnings against travel)

 

[Sanz]

Hardly a rebuttal - it's more a supporting argument

Sorry I posted the wrong link, here is the link I should have posted - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/293617.html

 

[R_D]

If you take a stand on morality, then be consistent. If you flip-flop your stand based on the positives/Negative effect on your country, then it doesn't remain a moral stand, it becomes a hypocritical, opportunistic and populist stand.

exactly.... but you are talking to captain SOcial... he has to defend australia or anything aussie at every cost. He feels the need because no one else is there to do it.

 

[social]

Sorry I posted the wrong link, here is the link I should have posted - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/293617.html

The fact that he bases himself in Sydney really fills me with confidence

 

[social]

exactly.... but you are talking to captain SOcial... he has to defend australia or anything aussie at every cost. He feels the need because no one else is there to do it.

And what u geniuses continue to ignore is that every hard line stance against China has FAILED and so Australia is trying diplomacy

Diplomacy has failed with Mugabe and so theyre trying something else

 

[Sanz]

And what u geniuses continue to ignore is that every hard line stance against China has FAILED and so Australia is trying diplomacy

Can you please give examples of Hard Line Stance Australia took against China ? I hope you dont consider Australia's permission to allow Dalai Lama a House in Perth as a Hardline stance.

Diplomacy has failed with Mugabe and so theyre trying something else

Oh so Australia are taking a different route this time ? In China's case they took the hard line route and when the hardline didn't work they are trying Diplomacy now ? Good err sorry very bad Joke...

 

[Sanz]

The fact that he bases himself in Sydney really fills me with confidence

Yes, it should because at least it kinda proves that he is making an honest opinion without any fear of Zimbo govt.

 

[Sanz]

The fact that he bases himself in Sydney really fills me with confidence

Here is one more, This one is from an Aussie who lived there and coached their team. But I am sure you are a bigger expert than him :-

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/293798.html


"The feeling I get - and it's the opinion of some of my Zimbabwean mates as well - is what difference will stopping a cricket tour make?" - Geoff Marsh

 

[pasag]

Agree with Social here. Would be a good debate too, if not for the bickering.

 

[Burgey]

Apparently the compensation money will go to Mugabe's Zimbabwe Cricket setup, if the tour doesn't go ahead..

Imagine handing 2 million dollars over to Mr Mugabe without even doing anything...

Even more need for this tour to actually happen, if the above is the case..

But doesn't going there legitimise his regime in another way? "We can'tbe that bad, the best side in the world has just toured here"......

 

[social]

Here is one more, This one is from an Aussie who lived there and coached their team. But I am sure you are a bigger expert than him :-

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/293798.html


"The feeling I get - and it's the opinion of some of my Zimbabwean mates as well - is what difference will stopping a cricket tour make?" - Geoff Marsh

Geoof Marsh left behind some great admirers in Zimbabwe

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/26/1082831502157.html?from=storyrhs

And in any event, I'm sure he's a more credible source than Zimbabwe's greatest ever test cricketer

http://www.paktribune.com/sports/hockey2006/newsdetail.php?nid=2482

The fact is that the same debate took place in 2004 and Australia toured.

Since then, thousands more have died at the hands of the Mugabe regime, the economy has **** itself and mass starvation will almost certainly result in one of the worst human tragedies in history

Sanz' solution - the Australians must tour and we'll see how things are in 2008

 

[Dasa]

Sanz' solution - the Australians must tour and we'll see how things are in 2008

That said, I am not debating whether Australia tours Zimbabwe or not, but just pointing out the Hypocrisy which you are defending and while doing so posting mostly incorrect information.

 

[social]

Sorry mate but, according to Sanz, Australia must tour Zimbabwe to avoid being hypocritical over their participation at the Beijing Olympics

I have set out the reasons why the 2 scenarios are different and demand differing responses

 

[pup11]

Australia has send a few officials to Zimbabwe to review the security arrangements there, so i guess two things might happen now, CA might say that they aren't happy with the security arrangements so they don't want to tour Zimbabwe or they could just simply go ahead with the tour.

 

[Sanz]

Sorry mate but, according to Sanz, Australia must tour Zimbabwe to avoid being hypocritical over their participation at the Beijing Olympics

I have set out the reasons why the 2 scenarios are different and demand differing responses

You haven't pointed anything, so far all you have posted is incorrect and irrlevant information.

You said 'Hard Line' Stance didn't work against China, I asked you to give examples of those 'Hard-Line' Stands taken by australia against China and you ignored the post as you always do when you dont have the answer.

 

[Sanz]

Agree with Social here. Would be a good debate too, if not for the bickering.

You agree with him on what - that PRC is also known as Taiwan or that Australia doesn't have any diplomatic relations with Zimbabwe ?

 

[Sanz]

Geoof Marsh left behind some great admirers in Zimbabwe

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/26/1082831502157.html?from=storyrhs

And in any event, I'm sure he's a more credible source than Zimbabwe's greatest ever test cricketer

http://www.paktribune.com/sports/hockey2006/newsdetail.php?nid=2482

The fact is that the same debate took place in 2004 and Australia toured.

Since then, thousands more have died at the hands of the Mugabe regime, the economy has **** itself and mass starvation will almost certainly result in one of the worst human tragedies in history

Sanz' solution - the Australians must tour and we'll see how things are in 2008

Oh So now you attack Geoff Marsh for saying his opinion. But that's very typical of You, the moment someone doesn't agree with your View you start attacking that person.

Geoff Marsh Certainly has more credibility than YOU, just incase you forgot to read the next link from cricinfo :-

http://content-www.cricinfo.com/zimbabwe/content/story/134722.html

"In fairness to Marsh, he is a difficult position. He is paid to coach the Zimbabwe side, and he can only work with what he is given. While the dispute has clearly affected him, he is limited in what action he can take. Were he to walk away, he would be in breach of contract, and it would make little difference to any of the unfolding events"