***Official** West Indies in England***

[tooextracool]

Which is precisely why they continue to pick Steyn over Nel - the position vacant is the opening bowling position - one which obviously will be favour bowlers who bowl well with the new ball.

Given the fact that Pollock (or the captain, or even the selectors) seems intent on bowling first change, and the fact that Kallis exists, South Africa don't need another stock change bowler - they need a new ball bowler who can swing it at pace. If Steyn was bowling complete rubbish and it wasn't working, you could make an argument for Pollock taking the new ball and Nel being brought back into the side, but Steyn has performed well and Pollock seems to be more comfortable in the first change role.

I think its crucial to note his ability to swing the ball at a serious pace. SA dont have any such bowler in their attack. Other than Langeveldt(who rarely plays tests anyways), all the rest of their bowlers are by and large seam bowlers and Steyn adds considerable variety to their attack. The reason why he took 4/30 against India for example, was because he was one of the few bowlers who got the ball to swing that day and it was an excellent performance. Not exactly sure why he was dropped after though.

 

[no1_gangsta_786]

I havent looked through the whole thread, so apologies in advance if this has already been answered...but in the schedule on the first page it says that both T20 will be played on June 28...is this correct??

 

[Raghav]

Trescothick is back. Good to see him back in to ENG side..

 

[superkingdave]

I havent looked through the whole thread, so apologies in advance if this has already been answered...but in the schedule on the first page it says that both T20 will be played on June 28...is this correct??

nah 28th & 29th

 

[Isura]

It very hard to predict what England's 1st test XI will be given that most of the players missing from Australia are most likely to be fit for the 1st test, the wicket-keeper position still wide open & the best balance of the side still undecided i.e whether to play 4/5 bowlers, where Flintoff should bat & who will bat in the middle-order.

But i'll have a go at a possible XI for the 1st test:

Trescothick
Strauss
Vaughan*
Bell
KP
Collingwood
Flintoff
Pothas+
Harmison
Hoggard
Panesar/Jones - depending on conditions

Maybe a dumb question. But why isn't Pieterson batting at 3?

 

[aussie]

well unlike the ODI side where his impetus is very much needed @ the start of the innings i don't its necessary for KP to up @ 3 in test since other batsmen are proven performers up the other.

 

[Barney Rubble]

well unlike the ODI side where his impetus is very much needed @ the start of the innings i don't its necessary for KP to up @ 3 in test since other batsmen are proven performers up the other.

TBH, if the England batsman prefer to go "up the other", I'd really rather not know about it.

 

[Raghav]

Vaughan and Bell being part of the England middle order need to perform really exceptionally well to stop WI making deep inroads in to ENG middle order very early..

 

[SJS]

Maybe a dumb question. But why isn't Pieterson batting at 3?

Same 'dumb' question from me.

Okay why is he batting below Bell?

 

[Pup Clarke]

Okay why is he batting below Bell?

Exposure to the new ball...

 

[Raghav]

England doesnt want to expose its best batsman against new ball.

 

[roseboy64]

I didnt catch his innings against queensland, not surprisingly of course given that i cant quite watch FC games. Honestly though his poor footwork has always hindered him at the test match level and hes never had a good test series in his entire career. Good attacks will always find him out IMO, and this in combination with his poor attitude to fitness and his rather ****y attitude leads me to believe that Deonarine is a far better bet.

His batting has rather improved I'd say. His technique is good IMO. Haven't heard anyone question that. May only have been an interview but he seemed more mature than he was in the past. Interview was yesterday on radio and along with me the interviewers including Maurice Foster were impressed with him and his attitude. I'd say he's lost that poor attitude based on that and how I've seen him bat over recent months.

 

[roseboy64]

My WI squad:

Ramnaresh Sarwan(c)
Daren Ganga(vc)
Chris Gayle
Shiv Chanderpaul
Devon Smith
Marlon Samuels
Dwayne Bravo
Denesh Ramdin
Dave Mohammed
Jermaine Lawson
Jerome Taylor
Pedro Collins
Corey Collymore
Daren Powell
Fidel Edwards/Runako Morton

First XI:
Gayle
Ganga
Sarwan*
Samuels
Chanderpaul
Bravo
Ramdin+
Mohammed
Taylor
Powell
Collins

My preference would be Morton for the last spot.

 

[Pup Clarke]

No Collymore in the X1!!!!.

 

[roseboy64]

Doesn't take enough wickets.

 

[Pup Clarke]

What are you on about?.Collymore is the Windies best test fast bowler by a mile!!!.

 

[Richard]

Steyn bowls consistently over 90 mph, with a decent action and bowls conventional outswingers. Anderson since his injury has rarely managed to do any of those.

Not sure what Anderson has to do with this but yes, Steyn is a far better swing bowler than Nel. But he can't swing anything other than a brand-new ball in my experience, and he's so short that even when bowling reasonably well can still go for stacks of runs. Unless he can bowl a 7- or 8-over spell first up then graze in the outfield until the second-new-ball I can't really see the fuss over him.

 

[tooextracool]

His batting has rather improved I'd say. His technique is good IMO. Haven't heard anyone question that. May only have been an interview but he seemed more mature than he was in the past. Interview was yesterday on radio and along with me the interviewers including Maurice Foster were impressed with him and his attitude. I'd say he's lost that poor attitude based on that and how I've seen him bat over recent months.

Well hearing what Lara said at the presentation in his last game is hardly inspiring stuff re samuels. Samuels, has never had any sort of success at the test match level, and that is largely IMO because of what i perceive to be a poor technique.

 

[tooextracool]

Not sure what Anderson has to do with this but yes, Steyn is a far better swing bowler than Nel. But he can't swing anything other than a brand-new ball in my experience, and he's so short that even when bowling reasonably well can still go for stacks of runs. Unless he can bowl a 7- or 8-over spell first up then graze in the outfield until the second-new-ball I can't really see the fuss over him.

I'm not really sure what Anderson has to do with all of this either, i would think you would have a better idea of it given that you were the one who brought him up.

Quick question Richard, Have you actually bothered watching Steyn at any point post 2004? If you had watched his 4/30 against India or even his 5/82 against SL it would immediately shatter your claim about him not being able to swing anything other than an new ball. Quite simply he is a genuine swing bowler in the mould of Shane Bond with decent control of the ball and his performances are reflective of that in recent times. To claim that Nel averaging 100 odd recently is a better performer than him is rather irrational and then to argue that it was unfair to drop a 30 year old who wasnt performing for a 23 year old who was and provided far more variety to the attack beggars belief.

 

[Richard]

I'm not really sure what Anderson has to do with all of this either, i would think you would have a better idea of it given that you were the one who brought him up.

Indeed I was, forgot about that. The reason was that the two do have a bit in common in their waywardness and their outswing. Anderson's outswing hasn't been as prominent for a while, but to suggest he's hardly managed any is pushing it.

Quick question Richard, Have you actually bothered watching Steyn at any point post 2004? If you had watched his 4/30 against India or even his 5/82 against SL it would immediately shatter your claim about him not being able to swing anything other than an new ball. Quite simply he is a genuine swing bowler in the mould of Shane Bond with decent control of the ball and his performances are reflective of that in recent times.

I have watched Steyn at several points post-2004 but no, neither of those. Maybe I'd do well to do so, eh? Every time I've watched he's achieved no swing other than with a brand-new ball, and has been absolute cannon-fodder almost every time he's failed to swing the ball.

To claim that Nel averaging 100 odd recently is a better performer than him is rather irrational and then to argue that it was unfair to drop a 30 year old who wasnt performing for a 23 year old who was and provided far more variety to the attack beggars belief.

Except that an average of 100 is a ludicrous reflection of Nel's performance, he was injured for some of that time, dropped for Steyn when the pitches became conclusive, and was denied God-knows-how-many wickets by dropped catches and bad decisions.