***Official** West Indies in England***

[Richard]

How wayward do I make him out to be? There's no denying his accuracy was pretty reasonable this winter (in the ODIs if not the Tests), but he's had short spells of improvement before. I wait to see whether it's sustained, and until it is I have doubts.

 

[gettingbetter]

Well, no. Not as good as South Africa anyway

Fair enough, I might concede this point, but in my opinion, its just the fact that SA have Pollock and Ntini - quite possibly the most destructive opening duo in the world; but they haven't performed like it for a while - not in tandem atleast. I believe that SA have a better bowling attack than AUS, but they haven't displayed it.

If that doesn't lack penetration, what does?

To add to that point, Nel is not all he is cracked up to be (yet).

Nel can get people out on anything if things go his way

This doesn't really hold much water with me. Most..no, wouldn't all international bowlers get batsman if thing went their way?

Just in general, I'll find it hard to see England not adopting the 5 bowler stance.

 

[Richard]

You know perfectly well what I mean by "if things go his way" - ie if catches are held, decisions given correctly, etc.

 

[Salamuddin]

If the top six includes a genuine allrounder, not a batting allrounder, batting strength is a perfectly acceptable concern. Dwayne Bravo may have great potential, but he is, and well never be, a Kallis. Given that after him is a young wicketkeeper, still adjusting to Test cricket, and then squat all, it's a bold move to go in with 5 batsmen and Bravo.

This is not Australia, where two or three of the bottom for can bat very handily. This is a West Indies team that usually contains at least three number elevens in the bottom four.

You need to take 20 wickets to win a game, yes, but you still have to score more runs than the opposition. And the West Indies batting has been the let-down in recent Tests overseas. On dead West Indian pitches I can see a greater argument for 4 specialist bowlers.

Playing Bravo as one of your 4 specialist bowlers is an attempt at a band aid rather than a genuine fix.
Why not address the real problem ? Why aren't the top six of the WEst Indies scoring enough runs....
If your top 6 flop how will a Dwayne Bravo at 7 stem the rot more often than not ?
It's not workable....and add to the fact, that it will undermine the WI's ability to take 20 wickets because Bravo isn't good enough to be a front line test match bowler

Do the West Indies want to play bold, positive, winning cricket ? I that is the case, then they will realize you need a decent bowling effort to achieve that

 

[Beamer]

1st XI

CH Gayle
DS Smith
D Ganga (vc)
MN Samuels
RR Sarwan (c)
S Chanderpaul
DJJ Bravo
D Ramdin (wk)
JE Taylor
CD Collymore
A Jaggernauth

Reserves

RO Hinds
DB Powell
PT Collins
R Rampaul

Batting

- Ganga should bat at 3. He has scored lots of runs for T&T in that position, and seems settled enough in test cricket to succeed there now, especially if he is made vc.

- Samuels should be given a chance at 4 and told that he is to bat, bat and bat. He should be given a run of 10 tests at that position, and if he fails that will be that. He is a genius waiting to happen IMO.

- Shiv needs to bat at 6. He is statistically the best number 6 in Test history and has always looked most comfortable there.

- Before looking to dominate and win Test series abroad, West Indies need to become tough to beat. Shades of Nasser Hussain's time as captain of England when they were ranked 8 in the World. Therefore, Bravo needs to bat at 7 and sure up the lower order IMO.

Bowling

- As far as pace bowling goes, I am not too bothered about personel, just combinations. One of Powell and Taylor needs to play as they are the genuinely quick bowlers. Also, one of Collymore/Collins needs to play as they are the steadier bowlers who rely on a good line and length accompanied by swing and seam. This would be accompanied by Bravo's medium pace which took 16 wickets on our last tour of England.

- A spinner needs to play every test, regardless of conditions. It is time the West Indies selectors understood the importance of a spinner in modern cricket. Jaggernauth is a better spinner than Mohammed IMO, and I think he could well become world class.

 

[tooextracool]

samuels doesnt have the technique to succeed in tests IMO. Add that to his shocking attitude and he doesnt deserve to ever come close to the test side.

 

[tooextracool]

1st XI

CH Gayle
DS Smith
D Ganga (vc)
MN Samuels
RR Sarwan (c)
S Chanderpaul
DJJ Bravo
D Ramdin (wk)
JE Taylor
CD Collymore
A Jaggernauth

Reserves

RO Hinds
DB Powell
PT Collins
R Rampaul

Batting

- Ganga should bat at 3. He has scored lots of runs for T&T in that position, and seems settled enough in test cricket to succeed there now, especially if he is made vc.

- Samuels should be given a chance at 4 and told that he is to bat, bat and bat. He should be given a run of 10 tests at that position, and if he fails that will be that. He is a genius waiting to happen IMO.

- Shiv needs to bat at 6. He is statistically the best number 6 in Test history and has always looked most comfortable there.

- Before looking to dominate and win Test series abroad, West Indies need to become tough to beat. Shades of Nasser Hussain's time as captain of England when they were ranked 8 in the World. Therefore, Bravo needs to bat at 7 and sure up the lower order IMO.

Bowling

- As far as pace bowling goes, I am not too bothered about personel, just combinations. One of Powell and Taylor needs to play as they are the genuinely quick bowlers. Also, one of Collymore/Collins needs to play as they are the steadier bowlers who rely on a good line and length accompanied by swing and seam. This would be accompanied by Bravo's medium pace which took 16 wickets on our last tour of England.

collins fully fit would be my first bowler on the team sheet. As far as the batting is concerned, does anyone know about how Narsingh Deonarine has been doing lately? Liam any words on him?
From the little i saw off him a few years ago during the contracts dispute, i was quite impressed and i think he would be a useful addition to this side, especially ahead of Samuels.

 

[tooextracool]

You know perfectly well what I mean by "if things go his way" - ie if catches are held, decisions given correctly, etc.

or if he actually manages to maintain something a bit higher than a rubbish fitness level.

 

[Beamer]

collins fully fit would be my first bowler on the team sheet. As far as the batting is concerned, does anyone know about how Narsingh Deonarine has been doing lately? Liam any words on him?
From the little i saw off him a few years ago during the contracts dispute, i was quite impressed and i think he would be a useful addition to this side, especially ahead of Samuels.

Deonarine is fairly consistent in FC cricket, and so I wouldn't object to his inclusion too vehemently.

The man who has dominated FC batting over the last 3 years or so is Ryan Hinds of Barbados. He has outperformed Deonarine and others so maybe he should get a shot.

However anyone who has seen Samuels during his 257 against Queensland, or his 2 ODI centuries, will tell you that he has a pretty good technique. I think he should be given a chance to perform or perish now that Lara has gone, rather than being shunted up and down the order as has been the case in recent times.

 

[tooextracool]

Deonarine is fairly consistent in FC cricket, and so I wouldn't object to his inclusion too vehemently.

The man who has dominated FC batting over the last 3 years or so is Ryan Hinds of Barbados. He has outperformed Deonarine and others so maybe he should get a shot.

However anyone who has seen Samuels during his 257 against Queensland, or his 2 ODI centuries, will tell you that he has a pretty good technique. I think he should be given a chance to perform or perish now that Lara has gone, rather than being shunted up and down the order as has been the case in recent times.

I didnt catch his innings against queensland, not surprisingly of course given that i cant quite watch FC games. Honestly though his poor footwork has always hindered him at the test match level and hes never had a good test series in his entire career. Good attacks will always find him out IMO, and this in combination with his poor attitude to fitness and his rather ****y attitude leads me to believe that Deonarine is a far better bet.

 

[Richard]

or if he actually manages to maintain something a bit higher than a rubbish fitness level.

That too.

Mind, he's been stupidly dropped for the like of Dale Steyn in addition to being injured.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Seeing as Dale Steyn's performances in test matches in the last year have been pretty good then it might not be that stupid a decision.Saying that an attack of Pollock,Ntni,Steyn,Nel and Kallis is very,very good IMO.

 

[Richard]

Steyn might have been a half-decent performer (no more than that) since his recall in April 2006, but it'd take a complete fool to imagine he has half the talent Nel has. Steyn has never demonstrated anything to make me believe he has the materials to bowl economically in Tests - Nel has so better than most. And both are more than capable of producing wicket-taking deliveries, Nel more so with the older ball than Steyn who is very much a new-ball bowler. And what's more, Nel is capable of being both stock (long-spell) and strike (short-spell) bowler - Steyn is emphatically capable of being the latter only.

 

[tooextracool]

Dale Steyn is a far better bowler than Nel will ever be. Steyn, when fit is arguably as good as any bowler in the SA side and hes certainly younger than Nel and with far more potential. As such Nel's record since the australian tour in 2005/06 would make the likes of mohammad sami and ian salisbury look competent, and to claim that he was 'stupidly' dropped for steyn is the most ******** comment ive heard in a long time.

 

[Richard]

Oh come on! Steyn is nothing but a James Anderson with a bit more penetration.

About the only thing he has over Nel is his age.

 

[TT Boy]

Oh come on! Steyn is nothing but a James Anderson with a bit more penetration.

About the only thing he has over Nel is his age.

And the ability to swing the ball extremely late at 90 mph...

As Too Extra eluded to injuries have not been kind to Dale but he performed fantastically well in 2006- considering he bowled with either groin, thigh grievances or on road wars in Sri Lanka where unlike Andre, Dale, actually looked threatening.

 

[Prince EWS]

Steyn has never demonstrated anything to make me believe he has the materials to bowl economically in Tests

So what? Bowling economically in tests is highly irrelevant if you can take the wickets required at a good average.

And both are more than capable of producing wicket-taking deliveries, Nel more so with the older ball than Steyn who is very much a new-ball bowler.

Which is precisely why they continue to pick Steyn over Nel - the position vacant is the opening bowling position - one which obviously will be favour bowlers who bowl well with the new ball.

Given the fact that Pollock (or the captain, or even the selectors) seems intent on bowling first change, and the fact that Kallis exists, South Africa don't need another stock change bowler - they need a new ball bowler who can swing it at pace. If Steyn was bowling complete rubbish and it wasn't working, you could make an argument for Pollock taking the new ball and Nel being brought back into the side, but Steyn has performed well and Pollock seems to be more comfortable in the first change role.

 

[Richard]

Steyn has demonstrated the ability to take wickets in Test cricket at a good average?

News to me.

 

[Prince EWS]

Steyn has demonstrated the ability to take wickets in Test cricket at a good average?

News to me.

His performances since 2006 were what was being discussed, so yes.

There's little doubt he wasn't good enough when he was first picked. But there's equally little doubt that he's improved out of sight since then.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh come on! Steyn is nothing but a James Anderson with a bit more penetration.

About the only thing he has over Nel is his age.

Steyn bowls consistently over 90 mph, with a decent action and bowls conventional outswingers. Anderson since his injury has rarely managed to do any of those.