'Tendulkar should consider quitting' by Ian chappel

[Anil]

Yuvraj wouldn't have looked vintage Tendulkar either.
Neither would Kaif have. Raina too.

So the only way Tendulkar is justified a spot in the Indian test team is if he's batting like the best batsman in the world ala 98-2000?

did i say that? that was unworthy of you...see my 2nd point which is more focussed towards justifying his spot on the team....

 

[Anil]

That was because the bowling (on mostly helpful pitches) was excellent. Sure, he might not have looked as good as he did 5 years ago, but as I say - he looked good enough to suggest to me that, maybe, against some lesser bowling on some less seam-friendly surfaces, he might just have it in him to start stacking the runs up again.

Had that series been played 5 years ago, I have no doubt at all he'd have been regarded as showing his class under trying circumstances.

well first of all, we can't go back 5 years so let's not try to....secondly his form might be good enough to score a double hundred against bangladesh or zimbabwe, what is the point you are trying to make?

 

[Jono]

did i say that? that was unworthy of you...see my 2nd point which is more focussed towards justifying his spot on the team....

Unworthy? I didn't mean to be rude in any way if that's what you meant. I don't think I was though, but apologies if it came off that way.

Anyway my point is, fair enough people claiming Tendulkar should retire/be dropped if there are 5 other better middle order batsman than him in India. However if people just claim that he should be dropped because he's not going to average 55+ anymore, or be as attacking as he used to be etc., then they're missing the point of cricket, i.e. that its a team game, and if Tendulkar still contributes to the Indian team better than most other players can, then he should be in the XI.

I just get tired of reading 'vintage Tendulkar', those days are gone whether we like it or not. That doesn't mean he's not a worthy member of the Indian team, and to me he justified his place in South Africa. He played one horrible shot after making an impressive 50 in the first innings of the 2nd test, and had one horrible knock in the 3rd test second innings, which can partly be put down to injury, and partly down to him and Dravid batting like idiots.

 

[Jono]

I do think we should see how he plays vs England this summer. The number of runs he gets might not actually be an indicator, its how he makes them, like Chappelli says.

See, that's just palpably wrong.

Tendulkar may be unable to score runs like he did back in the 90s, but so what? If he's not in the top echelon of batsman nowadays, that's sad, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing for India, if he's likely to score more runs than his competing teammates vying for his middle order spot.

You saying he must score the runs like he did a number of years ago is ridiculous. If he gets a double ton in England similar to that of Sydney, it'd be great for Team India. Maybe not for vintage Tendulkar fans, but that's not who he plays for, not should he.

 

[SJS]

Chappelli is never short of an opinion. I think Sachin needs to have a good think about whether he really thinks he can still perform at the level he was accustomed to doing so. If, after HONESTLY thinking about, he thinks he can't, he should pull the plug. He's already achieved more than most could ever dream of in the game and will be remembered as a great - better to go out on roughly your terms, with your legend intact. If on the other hand, he really thinks he can reclaim his form of 5 years ago, who are any of us to tell him that he's wrong?

Its a tough one that.

Should a truly great player retire when he is past his prime or should he retire when he isnt good enough to play for the country.

Everyone would like to leave when on top but its rare for people to go at the top. Sachin is extremely unlikely to touch his peak except on the odd occasion. Buit he may decide to play if he has something to contribute and if he thinks it is good for the game.

To hang on when you are not contributing (Kapil's last year or so) is selfish but to leave if the country needs you but you want to be the very best or nothing at all is not necessarily putting team before self.

Having said that, I dont see any reason why Sachin cant be dropped from the side if he doesnt deserve a place? Why do we think it is somehow demeaning for the very best players to be ever dropped. If we just stopped giving so much importance to being dropped for a game or too a lot of the subcontinental cricket's problems would have been reduced.

 

[Anil]

Unworthy? I didn't mean to be rude in any way if that's what you meant. I don't think I was though, but apologies if it came off that way.

Anyway my point is, fair enough people claiming Tendulkar should retire/be dropped if there are 5 other better middle order batsman than him in India. However if people just claim that he should be dropped because he's not going to average 55+ anymore, or be as attacking as he used to be etc., then they're missing the point of cricket, i.e. that its a team game, and if Tendulkar still contributes to the Indian team better than most other players can, then he should be in the XI.

I just get tired of reading 'vintage Tendulkar', those days are gone whether we like it or not. That doesn't mean he's not a worthy member of the Indian team, and to me he justified his place in South Africa. He played one horrible shot after making an impressive 50 in the first innings of the 2nd test, and had one horrible knock in the 3rd test second innings, which can partly be put down to injury, and partly down to him and Dravid batting like idiots.

by unworthy, i meant you usually read posts before making such comments...i was commenting on richard's statement that tendulkar looked really good in s.a, and i said he wasn't anything approaching vintage form...as for him justifying his spot in the team, no one really did apart from ganguly on that tour....while the others had the "excuse" of being either not being in form or being totally clueless against a quality attack, tendulkar was in fairly good touch but he didn't utilize good starts which to me doesn't cast him in exactly a good light as far as that tour goes....

 

[Calvin]

I still think he can offer a bit in test matches as there he can pace himself without much pressure, to me he gets out nowdays thinking he has to score very quickly (just like the old days) in ODIs.

 

[maheshprasad]

Utter Rubbish

To me this forum should never have been opened.It is all the fault of Ian.He may be a good cricket analyst but that doesn't give any permission for him and his mirror to make comments about the retirement decision of another player.
Anyway as this forum is open i shall say my opinion.Sachin Tendulkar will be regarded as one of the best batsmen this world has ever seen and as the best ODI batsman ever.It will happen so evenif he retires in 2011 or 2015.In the future nobody will look at a past batsman's day by day performance.So his retirement decision will not do anything to his glory.
Does Ian think Sachin will take his advice?From my analysis of Sachin,he won't.Because Sachin is the greatest fighter I've ever seen.He enjoys cricket more than anybody in the game.(Look at the way he bowls and fields).He plays his best cricket when he is under the highest personal emotions.Din't mistake it for pressure.Remember how he batted against Kenya at the day of his father's death.And to me he will come back strongly answering his critics.He has done it in the past and he will do it again.As proof:His ton against Pak at his return from a back injury.Most of the people said he won't be the same Sachin again but he batted absolutely world class answering his critics.
Now about the criticisms.It is about Sachin not performing as well as he did in the past.As a matter of fact Iagree to that part and I hope he will bat so in the future.But he is still better than everybody in the current Indian team.Now the statistics.From the last 20 matches he has made 1 century and 6 fifties with an average of 33.5.I agree that it is noway near his career average of 44.But you have to remember that in most of the recent matches he has been batting in the middle order.He hasn't batted at that position for a long time.So it takes time to adapt even for the best.But his recent form is fantastic for a second down batsman.Has Michael Clarke scored 1 century and 6 fifties in his recent 20 matches?
Greg Chappell and Rahul Dravid also account for Sachin's drop in the current form.If they let him play him at the top he would've played much better.Instead they played a rookie,Uthappa.
My love for cricket is mostly based on Sachin.He is still my hero.And I don't forget my heroes easily.I want to see Sachin answer his critics with his heavy bat and reach the milestone of 100 centuries.May god help him achieve that.

 

[silentstriker]

To me this forum should never have been opened.It is all the fault of Ian.He may be a good cricket analyst but that doesn't give any permission for him and his mirror to make comments about the retirement decision of another player.
Anyway as this forum is open i shall say my opinion.Sachin Tendulkar will be regarded as one of the best batsmen this world has ever seen and as the best ODI batsman ever.It will happen so evenif he retires in 2011 or 2015.In the future nobody will look at a past batsman's day by day performance.So his retirement decision will not do anything to his glory.
Does Ian think Sachin will take his advice?From my analysis of Sachin,he won't.Because Sachin is the greatest fighter I've ever seen.He enjoys cricket more than anybody in the game.(Look at the way he bowls and fields).He plays his best cricket when he is under the highest personal emotions.Din't mistake it for pressure.Remember how he batted against Kenya at the day of his father's death.And to me he will come back strongly answering his critics.He has done it in the past and he will do it again.As proof:His ton against Pak at his return from a back injury.Most of the people said he won't be the same Sachin again but he batted absolutely world class answering his critics.
Now about the criticisms.It is about Sachin not performing as well as he did in the past.As a matter of fact Iagree to that part and I hope he will bat so in the future.But he is still better than everybody in the current Indian team.Now the statistics.From the last 20 matches he has made 1 century and 6 fifties with an average of 33.5.I agree that it is noway near his career average of 44.But you have to remember that in most of the recent matches he has been batting in the middle order.He hasn't batted at that position for a long time.So it takes time to adapt even for the best.But his recent form is fantastic for a second down batsman.Has Michael Clarke scored 1 century and 6 fifties in his recent 20 matches?
Greg Chappell and Rahul Dravid also account for Sachin's drop in the current form.If they let him play him at the top he would've played much better.Instead they played a rookie,Uthappa.
My love for cricket is mostly based on Sachin.He is still my hero.And I don't forget my heroes easily.I want to see Sachin answer his critics with his heavy bat and reach the milestone of 100 centuries.May god help him achieve that.

That's the problem though. Instead of focusing on one player, and becoming attached to them, the fans should be focusing on the best thing for team India.

 

[Swervy]

See, that's just palpably wrong.

Tendulkar may be unable to score runs like he did back in the 90s, but so what? If he's not in the top echelon of batsman nowadays, that's sad, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing for India, if he's likely to score more runs than his competing teammates vying for his middle order spot.

You saying he must score the runs like he did a number of years ago is ridiculous. If he gets a double ton in England similar to that of Sydney, it'd be great for Team India. Maybe not for vintage Tendulkar fans, but that's not who he plays for, not should he.

I am sorry but how he scores them is quite important with regards to Tendulkar. The guy has been pretty average for the last 4 years. he has had big innings but it was pretty obvious that his 240 vs Australia wasnt the same old Sachin. If he doesnt play like he used to be able to, then his consistancy will suffer (like it has done for years). An inconsistant Tendulkar is not worth too much to India I am afraid.

And so, even if he scores 400 runs in the series vs England, if it is a struggle for him, then it is pretty doubtful that he will contribute much more in the future. It is then that India need to be looking towards replacing him.

I agree that if he is better that if he is better than those who are fighting for a place, ten he should be in the team...the thing is, Tendulkars place seems so locked on that it takes opportunity away from the others. If Tendulkar is struggling he shouldnt be playing for India, the bad trot has gone on for ages now (despite what the averages might suggest, which I think flatters him in the last few years), and I think he needs to turn it around in style fast

 

[haroon510]

Tendulker peaked from 1996 to 1999.
after that he decline. now he is no where close to lara. this is clear that he won't go back to his peaked form but he might come back and play some crucial innings. considering that and his exprince he should be given another chance. maybe England tour would be good for him to prove how much cricket left in him.

 

[adharcric]

Yuvraj wouldn't have looked vintage Tendulkar either.
Neither would Kaif have. Raina too.

So the only way Tendulkar is justified a spot in the Indian test team is if he's batting like the best batsman in the world ala 98-2000?

I disagree. Out of Kaif, Yuvraj, Badrinath and Sharma, I'm quite sure that at least one of them can perform better than Tendulkar has in test cricket recently. Tendulkar should get a final chance in England not because the replacements are crap but because he batted well enough in South Africa (without going on for a big one, hence the "final") to earn it.

 

[Richard]

well first of all, we can't go back 5 years so let's not try to....secondly his form might be good enough to score a double hundred against bangladesh or zimbabwe, what is the point you are trying to make?

The point I'm trying to make is that that series will be viewed differently in the contexts it's in. But I don't think said contexts are fair - I think it's best to simply look at the fact that he actually played pretty darn well against some good bowling.

 

[Richard]

To me this forum should never have been opened.It is all the fault of Ian.

???????

 

[Anil]

The point I'm trying to make is that that series will be viewed differently in the contexts it's in. But I don't think said contexts are fair - I think it's best to simply look at the fact that he actually played pretty darn well against some good bowling.

in that case, you also have to concede the fact that he just didn't play well enough, something that is borne by stats such as his own personal ones, the fact that he got out multiple times after getting well set instead on building on it and the impact it had on the tests/series result....

 

[Richard]

I don't deny that he did once or twice. But I think all-in-all he had a good series, making more runs (against a good bowling-attack) than most would do in the same situation.

 

[Jono]

I disagree. Out of Kaif, Yuvraj, Badrinath and Sharma, I'm quite sure that at least one of them can perform better than Tendulkar has in test cricket recently. Tendulkar should get a final chance in England not because the replacements are crap but because he batted well enough in South Africa (without going on for a big one, hence the "final") to earn it.

No you missed my point.

My argument was that Yuvrak, Kaif etc. would not have performed akin to Tendulkar of 96-2000. So why should Tendulkar have to perform like that to keep his spot in the team?

If people genuinely believe Yuvraj, Kaif, Badrinath or bloody Ashish Nehra will score more runs than Tendulkar in test cricket, that's fine, drop him. But if people keep holding Tendulkar to the standard he set in the past, he should never wear Indian cricket colours again, because he'll never reach that, and I doubt another Indian will reach that for a while.

 

[adharcric]

No you missed my point.

My argument was that Yuvrak, Kaif etc. would not have performed akin to Tendulkar of 96-2000. So why should Tendulkar have to perform like that to keep his spot in the team?

If people genuinely believe Yuvraj, Kaif, Badrinath or bloody Ashish Nehra will score more runs than Tendulkar in test cricket, that's fine, drop him. But if people keep holding Tendulkar to the standard he set in the past, he should never wear Indian cricket colours again, because he'll never reach that, and I doubt another Indian will reach that for a while.

Definitely did miss your point and definitely agree with all of this. Tendulkar should not be judged by his ridiculously high personal standards but by team standards.

 

[amokk1]

Do you think the selectors will have the guts to drop Tendulkar? I hope so.

If Sehwag is still in the ODI, I don't think they will drop Tendulkar.anytime soon..

 

[pup11]

There was an interview of Greg Chappell in the newspaper today and a question was asked regarding his thoughts over Ian Chappell's comments about Sachin.


And his answer was he is my brother what else do you expect him to say.