Fiery
Banned
Economy rate 3.88 in this cup
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Group C - New Zealand, England, Kenya, Canada
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
That's not the point. Not once have I said Vincent should not currently be in the side. I'm saying that to talk him down is to display long, not short, term memory.
It's not as bad as it sounds.No need for that
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
And what about the CB series?
Seriously though, I'm not going to sit here and bag Oram's bowling, because I've always rated him as an ODI bowler.
I really don't care if he scores 35 not out against Canada or not, but his innings against England was quality I'll admit. He's looking more like a genuine #6 every innings - he still has to keep it going for longer than two series though...
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He's played just 1 meaningful game thus far, though.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
He does indeed, but provided he does that makes us 1-all.
Blaze
Banned
*aggres*
Vincent is rubbish on anything but flat hard tracks. Always has been, always will be.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Raghav
International Vice-Captain
Really huhNeed a capital A and the r and e the other way around.
Then you're laughing
MoxPearl
State Vice-Captain
Fiery
Banned
Good to hear he's slowly swaying your opinion mateAnd what about the CB series?
Seriously though, I'm not going to sit here and bag Oram's bowling, because I've always rated him as an ODI bowler.
I really don't care if he scores 35 not out against Canada or not, but his innings against England was quality I'll admit. He's looking more like a genuine #6 every innings - he still has to keep it going for longer than two series though...
thierry henry
International Coach
16tos, your points are duly noted. Probably I am being unduly harsh on Vettori because (seemingly unlike everyone else in the world) I just don't enjoy his bowling much. In particular, I am falling in to the trap of criticising his ODI bowling because I think he's a pretty rubbish test bowler. While the averages are obviously similar, I will concede that (a) his economy in ODIs is very good, and (b) he has actually been improving in ODIs, unlike in tests.
Re: Vincent, I think Blaze is probably right. I think it'd be fair to say Lou has his uses on the hard, fast tracks. He's pretty much at the extreme end of the modern day, drive on the up, flat track bully batsman. Honestly, no matter how many times I watch him bat, I can't shake the notion that he has no idea what he's doing. I think his moderate domestic record and the first 65 or so games of his ODI career underline this point. Nevertheless, he has proven useful as an opening bat on favourable wickets. I would actually keep him in the team at the moment as long as he doesn't pretend to be a proper batsman. He is a useful hard track slogger, I admit.
Re: Vincent, I think Blaze is probably right. I think it'd be fair to say Lou has his uses on the hard, fast tracks. He's pretty much at the extreme end of the modern day, drive on the up, flat track bully batsman. Honestly, no matter how many times I watch him bat, I can't shake the notion that he has no idea what he's doing. I think his moderate domestic record and the first 65 or so games of his ODI career underline this point. Nevertheless, he has proven useful as an opening bat on favourable wickets. I would actually keep him in the team at the moment as long as he doesn't pretend to be a proper batsman. He is a useful hard track slogger, I admit.
thierry henry
International Coach
Exactly.
Vincent was just about the worst middle order batsman going in international ODI cricket for the best part of 60 or 70 matches. He's found better success as a reckless slogger at the top of the order. Still a way to go before he proves anything much.
Fiery
Banned
He has to pretend to be a proper batsman and play proper cricket shots or he's more likely to get out
thierry henry
International Coach
I've never seen Vincent succeed by playing normal cricket.
A "good" Lou Vincent innings is driving aerially on the up, paddle sweeps off the seamers, and numerous plays and misses outside off stump. If he trys to play "properly" he just ends up getting to 15 off 40 balls, or something like that, and then getting out- see the first 60 games of his career.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I wouldn't really say he's a flat track bully - I think he'd succeed reasonably well on a pitch with a decent amount of seam movement as long as the bounce was consistent and the pitch was a fast one. Slow wickets, even of the flat variety, I can see him struggling on.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
He played properly during the CB series, IMO. Possibly a little more aggressive than your average batsman, but it was still batsmanship.
thierry henry
International Coach
Just flat out disagree tbh. An agree to disagree situation, I suppose. For starters, he hardly plays any normal front foot shots along the ground. When he drives, he tries to hit it for 6 90% of the time. Secondly, it seems to me that a lot of his shots are predetermined. He plays the pull shot, maybe, and if he gets a real rank short and wide ball, he cuts. But apart from that I see him as a player who predetermines his shots, doesn't know how to pace an innings, and generally resorts to trying to hit over the infield.
Fiery
Banned
Well it seems to be working for him of late so if it ain't broke don't fix it...(which I suppose is what you're saying ultimately)
_Ed_
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Test debut, Perth, 2001.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Vincent does try and 'wing it' alot of the times, often riding his luck & playing checky predetermined shots.
But he has proven himself over the summer with some mature innings and I'm picking him to continue to average around 35 with the bat this world cup (which is good for a NZer). Plus he's handy in the field like Marshall as said before!!
But he has proven himself over the summer with some mature innings and I'm picking him to continue to average around 35 with the bat this world cup (which is good for a NZer). Plus he's handy in the field like Marshall as said before!!