Group C - New Zealand, England, Kenya, Canada

[thierry henry]

The batting is ok though As long as Lou doesn't waste too many balls trying to convince everyone that he knows how to bat. We know you don't, Lou. Just slog or get out.

 

[Richard]

Actually I'm mostly just sceptical about Vincent and Vettori.

Vincent is utterly pathetic and has the record to prove it.

Vettori...well...he has improved as an ODI bowler, I will give him that. He is generally economical and I know the value of that. Having said that, without delving into any more statistical analysis than I have in the past (because it never works on people re: Vettori), it seems that he generally bowls very economically against Australia, sometimes against minnows, but is utterly innocuous and only moderately economical against everyone else.

Also, I think I have pretty good reason to be sceptical about our bowling in general- Mason and Tuffey were totally shown up and that'll probably be the end of their chances to be part of the first choice squad, Franklin is a fairly crap ODI bowler, Gillespie and Patel are too expensive....so yeah...I do have some concerns.

Moreoreless what I said, then.

You don't let patriotism blind you to realities.

Just like me in that respect.

 

[Fiery]

Actually I'm mostly just sceptical about Vincent and Vettori.

Vincent is utterly pathetic and has the record to prove it.

Vettori...well...he has improved as an ODI bowler, I will give him that. He is generally economical and I know the value of that. Having said that, without delving into any more statistical analysis than I have in the past (because it never works on people re: Vettori), it seems that he generally bowls very economically against Australia, sometimes against minnows, but is utterly innocuous and only moderately economical against everyone else.

Also, I think I have pretty good reason to be sceptical about our bowling in general- Mason and Tuffey were totally shown up and that'll probably be the end of their chances to be part of the first choice squad, Franklin is a fairly crap ODI bowler, Gillespie and Patel are too expensive....so yeah...I do have some concerns.

Harsh again on Vettori who is currently ranked 4 in the world in ODIs by the ICC. Vincent was hardly "pathetic" in the CB Series. Who would you have there instead th? No other contenders really

 

[Raghav]

Vettori! Just one bad day! Its common that a bowler has it . Dont just read too much in to it. I could notice that the reason why Vettori gives lot many runs against minnows is that he tries too many things and try to be aggressive to get big haul. And when he play big nations, he just be conserved and defensive and limit himself . That what makes him to get the scoring down.

He is a clever bowler and I highly respect him.

Vettori, you are big and great . Go on get the WC!

 

[thierry henry]

Harsh again on Vettori who is currently ranked 4 in the world in ODIs by the ICC. Vincent was hardly "pathetic" in the CB Series. Who would you have there instead th?

Interested by that ranking. Would love an explanation of how he achieved it. Perhaps I will have to hit up statsguru and get my regular fix

6 years and 97 games have given me ample opportunity to establish that Vincent is pathetic. Not sure who I would rather have there really- everyone, anyone, no-one, whatever. Sort of like our back up quicks- it hardly matters, they're all rubbish. As I said, Lou is occasionally useful as long as he doesn't try to be a real batsman.

 

[thierry henry]

Vettori! Just one bad day! Its common that a bowler has it . Dont just read too much in to it. I could notice that the reason why Vettori gives lot many runs against minnows is that he tries too many things and try to be aggressive to get big haul. And when they play big nations, he just be conserved and defensive and limit himself . That what makes him to get the scoring down.

He is a clever bowler and I highly respect him.

Vettori, you are big and great . Go on get the WC!

Nope, he has been comparatively poor in all of the games thus far. It doesn't surprise me because he generally only plays well when we're losing....

 

[Fiery]

Interested by that ranking. Would love an explanation of how he achieved it. Perhaps I will have to hit up statsguru and get my regular fix

6 years and 97 games have given me ample opportunity to establish that Vincent is pathetic. Not sure who I would rather have there really- everyone, anyone, no-one, whatever. Sort of like our back up quicks- it hardly matters, they're all rubbish. As I said, Lou is occasionally useful as long as he doesn't try to be a real batsman.

You can't really criticise himself unless you can come up with someone else better to replace him. Agree that his role should be to go the tonk early but he's doing that pretty well recently (2 ducks excluded)

 

[thierry henry]

Anyway....we're gonna win the Cup! woot!

 

[Raghav]

Anyway....we're gonna win the Cup! woot!

Good Positive Thing

 

[thierry henry]

You can't really criticise himself unless you can come up with someone else better to replace him. Agree that his role should be to "have a go"

Certainly. For the longest time, there was this fascination with Lou as a middle order nurdler/finisher, despite his career strike rate in the mid 60s and average in the mid 20s- prior to boosting both stats with some occasional pyrotechnics at the top of the order (most notably against Zimbabwe....). He just isn't a good enough bat to play a role of such subtlety. At his best he hits aerially through the line and scores at better than a run a ball. As soon as he starts thinking to hard the strike rate slips down to unacceptable levels and he isn't a good enough player to accelerate later on.

 

[Prince EWS]

Harsh thierry. I didn't see the innings but a tons a ton. I see it as a big plus and pretty much the final ingredient in Bracewell's "cake" leading into the Super 8

I saw a lot of the innings and it reminded me a lot of Hayden's ton in the CB series which I criticised heavily. While Vincent didn't actually give many "chances" as far as I can remember, he took some stupid risks and never really looked in control.

Now, the thing with Hayden's innings was, as bad as his form and the innings actually was, the fact that he had scored a century actually lifted his form, his confidence and his general game from then on.

So while Vincent's ton may not have been pretty, it could well put him in good shape for the rest of the tournament. To me though, Vincent seems like the sort of batsman who loves the quicker, bouncier wickets but struggles a bit on the slower ones... so that could well count against him...

 

[Fiery]

Anyway....we're gonna win the Cup! woot!

That's more like it

 

[Raghav]

Certainly. For the longest time, there was this fascination with Lou as a middle order nurdler/finisher, despite his career strike rate in the mid 60s and average in the mid 20s- prior to boosting both stats with some occasional pyrotechnics at the top of the order (most notably against Zimbabwe....). He just isn't a good enough bat to play a role of such subtlety. At his best he hits aerially through the line and scores at better than a run a ball. As soon as he starts thinking to hard the strike rate slips down to unacceptable levels and he isn't a good enough player to accelerate later on.

Understood. But still he is good fielder and you could see that he inflicted three runouts in the past three games with the direct hits and remember the amount of runs he saves for his side. Eventhough he doesnt score, he got his fielding to support him and he can real threat for the opposition batsman when they try to chance against Vincent!

 

[thierry henry]

Understood. But still he is good fielder and you could see that he inflicted three runouts in the past three games with the direct hits and remember the amount of runs he saves for his side. Eventhough he doesnt score, he got his fielding to support him and he can real threat for the opposition batsman when they try to chance against Vincent!

yeah! Go Lou!

 

[Prince EWS]

Understood. But still he is good fielder and you could see that he inflicted three runouts in the past three games with the direct hits and remember the amount of runs he saves for his side. Eventhough he doesnt score, he got his fielding to support him and he can real threat for the opposition batsman when they try to chance against Vincent!

You can't have someone in there just based on fielding though. People always seem to use fielding to justify selecting a player they like and want in there but I don't think it's often objectively considered. If he's not good enough to command his place in the side as a batsman, he shouldn't be in the side. He had a very good CB series though so calling for his head after two ducks and then a century is a bit rough.

 

[Fiery]

yeah! Go Lou!

Is that sarcasm or changing of tune?

 

[Raghav]

I think Lou is still better to take the place of Astle considering the current form! Astle is not as good as Lou. What if had you done if Astle didnt retire? And also you worrying for just two ducks of Vincent, Astle has got record with most number of ducks in WC.

We have no option to go with Vincent and hope that all the runs we got off his bat in the first 10 overs(if he stays) are bonus.

Marshalls are worst than this! Lou is better selection and he can be really dangerous in the coming matches with his fielding! Please Never Discount him

 

[Richard]

Is that sarcasm or changing of tune?

Neither. It's being pretty sure he's right about Vincent but knowing that if he's wrong it benefits his team.

 

[Fiery]

You can't have someone in there just based on fielding though.

No, but it's makes a huge difference and is a major bonus in having him in the side

 

[Raghav]

Neither. It's being pretty sure he's right about Vincent but knowing that if he's wrong it benefits his team.

Which team are you talking of?