Minnows - Do we need them, do they improve with us?

[Prince EWS]

Believe it or not, I noticed that.

I'm telling you they could have - as so many others did.

You don't have to play the top nations to see whether you've improved, you can tell that by playing teams below that level.

And you don't think Bangladesh's improvement - seemingly led by a new generation of better players than the previous generations - has anything to with the fact that playing international cricket at a high level and hence raising the profile of the game in the country?

The actual players playing for Bangladesh originally never really improved much playing test matches - probably not any more than they would have playing weaker nations anyway - but the fact that they were playing test matches surely raised the profile of the game in the country and allowed for more money to put into developing players and refining talent for the next generation of players.

 

[Beleg]

I know India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand and West Indies all got dominated, and for a lot longer than the five years that Bangladesh have.

Pakistan beat England, India, Australia and NZ (not sure about WI) in the first series they played against those teams. However, the Pakistani circumstances were very different from Bangladesh.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Whats the cricket structure like in Ireland? Any chance they can step up (more so) in the next 5-10 years?

It's very much a minority sport over there. It's played in the public schools & amongst a few dedicated enthusiasts, often from traditonal crciketing families (like the O'Briens & the Joyces), but it doesn't really register on the national conscious at all. It suffers a bit from being seen as an "English" sport.

This win has actually pushed it onto the front page of their newspapers tho! It'll be a massive shot in the arm for cricket in Ireland. Everyone loves a winner.

 

[Richard]

It's certainly not an argument against having teams like Ireland in the Cup, who, after all, have proven they can actually beat top teams on a good day.

So could Yorkshire. Would you want them in the Cup too?

 

[Richard]

its threads like this where I genuinely doubt Richards true understanding of the game

Because you saw Ireland beating Pakistan?

 

[Richard]

Yeah, this thread is crazy. Richard complains that the minnows lower the quality of the tournament, then when they win, he complains that it lowers the quality of the competition even further.

That's because it does.

If they lose, it creates mismatches. If they win once, it sets-up more mismatches.

It's not really that complicated.

 

[Richard]

Who improved without playing Tests? As far as I remember every new country after the initial ones, when they first received test status, got thrashed. I know India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, New Zealand and West Indies all got dominated, and for a lot longer than the five years that Bangladesh have.

Nope, only New Zealand and Bangladesh of the teams admitted in the 20th-century (couting 2000 as such a thing) struggled. The rest all deserved it when they got it. India, West Indies and Sri Lanka might not have been winning games right away, but they sure as had quality players before and at the time of their elevation and did not get wiped off the planet every time they played. Pakistan and Zimbabwe didn't even struggle to compete at all.

Bangladesh have already lost more Tests and disfigured the truths in their time to date than New Zealand ever did.

 

[Richard]

And you don't think Bangladesh's improvement - seemingly led by a new generation of better players than the previous generations - has anything to with the fact that playing international cricket at a high level and hence raising the profile of the game in the country?

The actual players playing for Bangladesh originally never really improved much playing test matches - probably not any more than they would have playing weaker nations anyway - but the fact that they were playing test matches surely raised the profile of the game in the country and allowed for more money to put into developing players and refining talent for the next generation of players.

I don't believe so. Look at the Mini World Cup in Bangladesh in 1998 - before the notion of Bangladesh playing Tests had even been seriously raised. The country was completely cricket-crazy - probably had been since it was first formed (as East Pakistan). I don't think playing Tests either raised the profile or the standard.

 

[Richard]

It's very much a minority sport over there. It's played in the public schools & amongst a few dedicated enthusiasts, often from traditonal crciketing families (like the O'Briens & the Joyces), but it doesn't really register on the national conscious at all. It suffers a bit from being seen as an "English" sport.

This win has actually pushed it onto the front page of their newspapers tho! It'll be a massive shot in the arm for cricket in Ireland. Everyone loves a winner.

Tell me - what happened in 1969?

 

[LA ICE-E]

from what i know, and i do know a lot about bangladeshi cricket...the rise of cricket in bangladesh began when it made the '99 world cup...it wasn't the #1 there like it is now...

 

[Richard]

So explain the fanatical response to the Mini World Cup of 1998.

 

[LA ICE-E]

did you not get what i said or something? i said when it made the '99 world cup which means when it won the icc trophy about 2 years before that beating kenya thats when it started to become big...

 

[ohtani's jacket]

That's because it does.

If they lose, it creates mismatches. If they win once, it sets-up more mismatches.

It's not really that complicated.

If they win it's not a mismatch, is it?

 

[Richard]

But if what would normally be a mismatch turns on it's head, it creates more mismatches by allowing the wrong team through.

 

[Richard]

did you not get what i said or something? i said when it made the '99 world cup which means when it won the icc trophy about 2 years before that beating kenya thats when it started to become big...

Right - so why what were they doing playing ODIs in 1986?

And, for that matter, what happened to the fandom for cricket in East Pakistan? Was the game banned after the War Of Independence?

 

[ohtani's jacket]

But if what would normally be a mismatch turns on it's head, it creates more mismatches by allowing the wrong team through.

The wrong team through? Since when did Pakistan have the moral right to win? Shouldn't you be leveling the blame at Pakistan for their poor performance?

Honestly, what is this master plan where the "right" teams go through? Is this World Cup on puppet strings?

 

[Richard]

It's on a design. And you know perfectly well what I mean by "the right team", I mean the team that was in mind when the format was devised.

 

[LA ICE-E]

Right - so why what were they doing playing ODIs in 1986?

And, for that matter, what happened to the fandom for cricket in East Pakistan? Was the game banned after the War Of Independence?

they didn't play ODI in 1986...uh i never said it was banned but from what i know soccer was more popular before then

 

[Richard]

They certainly did play in 1986 - and was soccer more popular in India and Pakistan in 1971, too, 'cos it seems strange that people would change their sporting likes just because a country has changed it's political entry.

 

[Langeveldt]

I realise that, I find it incredibly ironic however that he desires India to be eliminated, seeing as that will involve a team he has shown no respect to for years now getting through to the Super 8s of the biggest ODI tournament in cricket.

Bangladesh have improved in the one day game, no doubt, thankfully under the now best coach in world cricket.. I'll stand by my total condemnation of the way in which they were elevated to test cricket though, on the basis of what exactly? I'm sure you could tell me about their sound domestic structure and sterling talent identification, but I won't let you make stuff up..

The only reason Im glad India were eliminated is because of their ridiculously fickle fanbase.. Not saying they are all like that, but does anybody remember the "terraces"?

And Bermuda to go through, what on earth are you talking about??