Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

[Tom Halsey]

TBF it's probably partly the sport that you aren't receptive to.

The best argument for relegation is that it gives hope (however nominal) to supporters of teams outside the top flight that one day their club will be in with the big boys. I know nothing about AFL at all, but if you were a follower of (say) South Melbourne back in the day you're now either faced with a mother of a round trip to see "your" team or to start to follow one of the other local clubs, which is usually anethema to any fan. When Wimbledon relocated to Milton Keynes & were "rebranded" as the MK Dons over here a group of local supporters formed their own team called AFC Wimbledon who do have that chance (however minimal it is) that they could be back in the big time one day.

Personally I don't see the argument against relegation, unless you don't have enough teams to make it worthwhile, which tbf may be the case in Australia, I don't know.

Basically means you can build up as good a team as you like, you still won't be allowed in the big competitions. What's the point of that?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Didnt realise (am pretty clueless when it comes to soccer) the French League had a club that won it 7 times in a row. What the hell is the point?!

Means that when some other team finally wins it (which will happen sooner or later) the sense of achievement will be greater IMO. You've beaten a team that's been dominant for so long, rather than a team which won the League randomly one year and haven't done anything since.

That's also what makes achievements such as The Double or The Treble so special - no-one did The Double in the 20th Century until Tottenham managed in in 1961 (?) (even if it has become more common since), and even fewer teams have done The Treble - IIRC 4 have, and only one of those in a major league.

I know for a fact that Manchester went mad when we won the League title for the first time in 26 years, and witnessed it when we won the European Cup again 31 years on from "Bobby's big night out at Wembley", as Clive put it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Personally I don't see the argument against relegation, unless you don't have enough teams to make it worthwhile, which tbf may be the case in Australia, I don't know.

Basically means you can build up as good a team as you like, you still won't be allowed in the big competitions. What's the point of that?

To put the case for opposition (not that I necessarily agree) you could argue that having no threat of relegation encourages less short-termism in managerial decisions (hopefully meaning more of an emphasis on development of promising young players) & having a salary cap encourages a more even distribution of talent.

WRT building a team up from outside of the top tier, if the example of the Gold Coast (the new NRL team) is anything to go by, it seems the franchise is awarded then the team is developed; they're a wholly new team.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Is it a true market when there are such large losses, though?

Yes IMO. It's still the fans who pay the players' wages.

 

[Tom Halsey]

To put the case for opposition (not that I necessarily agree) you could argue that having no threat of relegation encourages less short-termism in managerial decisions (hopefully meaning more of an emphasis on development of promising young players) & having a salary cap encourages a more even distribution of talent.

WRT building a team up from outside of the top tier, if the example of the Gold Coast (the new NRL team) is anything to go by, it seems the franchise is awarded then the team is developed; they're a wholly new team.

Yeah, that's fair enough, I suppose it comes down to whether you value your club or your country more. For me it's definitely club, as the national side don't seem to care very much.

 

[steds]

Means that when some other team finally wins it (which will happen sooner or later) the sense of achievement will be greater IMO.

Means that until some other team wins it (which usually happens later), it's the most boring thing on earth.

 

[Linda]

Personally I don't see the argument against relegation, unless you don't have enough teams to make it worthwhile, which tbf may be the case in Australia, I don't know.

Basically means you can build up as good a team as you like, you still won't be allowed in the big competitions. What's the point of that?

Not really. The players it would take to be in a team good enough to play in the AFL would be already playing in the AFL, I imagine... if that makes sense. One of the 16 clubs wouldve already signed them up.

 

[Linda]

To put the case for opposition (not that I necessarily agree) you could argue that having no threat of relegation encourages less short-termism in managerial decisions (hopefully meaning more of an emphasis on development of promising young players) & having a salary cap encourages a more even distribution of talent.

WRT building a team up from outside of the top tier, if the example of the Gold Coast (the new NRL team) is anything to go by, it seems the franchise is awarded then the team is developed; they're a wholly new team.

It differs, really. Tbh, I have absolutely no clue about NRL so I cant give any examples. But in the AFL some clubs are new, some merged and some stem from State League teams, such as Fremantle.

 

[Linda]

TBF it's probably partly the sport that you aren't receptive to.

The best argument for relegation is that it gives hope (however nominal) to supporters of teams outside the top flight that one day their club will be in with the big boys. I know nothing about AFL at all, but if you were a follower of (say) South Melbourne back in the day you're now either faced with a mother of a round trip to see "your" team or to start to follow one of the other local clubs, which is usually anethema to any fan. When Wimbledon relocated to Milton Keynes & were "rebranded" as the MK Dons over here a group of local supporters formed their own team called AFC Wimbledon who do have that chance (however minimal it is) that they could be back in the big time one day.

Oh and BB, Im not really that fussed on relegation, but I can see how it can help a league. Im more against the lack of a salary cap.

Relegation just wouldnt work at all here, for mine. Say Brisbane get knocked out one year, AFL would more than likely fall in a huge hole in Queensland and the Lions would never be seen again.

 

[GIMH]

See, English football fans do tend to be quite loyal. Man Citeh were down in the old Third and still averaging 30,000. In fact, when we went down from the First to the Second, our attendances went up.

Mind you, it's not true of all. It really bugs me when people say Newcastle are the best fans in the world. We beat them at St James in 92, and there were less than 20,000 there. 30,000 fans were suddenly gained when they became a decent Prem outfit. Coincidence? Fickle!

 

[vic_orthdox]

But when you went from First to Second, was there more interest because people were interested in watching you win?

 

[GIMH]

Not sure - if that was what they came for, they'd have been disappointed. Attendances had been on the up for a couple of years, and it just seemed that relegation didn't really effect it. They're lower now though, but I'd put that down to poor performances rather than results. People will watch a crap team play entertaining football, but people won't stand for dross I guess. Except mugs like myself

 

[savill]

Didn't know that actually, but it does make sense. There have definitely been moves to stop teams achieving success through bankruptcy in the last 3-4 years though, with the ten-point penalty now for going into administration.

Makes the fact that a wee small team like Colchester (even if the town is a poo-hole of the first water) are doing creditably in about tenth & Dirty Leeds are rooted to the foot that bit funnier.

Moreover how buggered would The Chavs be if the Prem had a similar arrangement regarding revenue...?

Oi enough of that!

People just don't realise how little Col U pay - I'd be surprised if any of our players were on more than £1,500 - £2,000 a week, most are probably on £500 - £1,000. Apparently our highest paid player earns lower than the lowest paid player at Leeds.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Means that until some other team wins it (which usually happens later), it's the most boring thing on earth.

If people are still watching it, evidently it is not.

 

[Matteh]

See, English football fans do tend to be quite loyal. Man Citeh were down in the old Third and still averaging 30,000.

Old Second Division tbh.

Leeds are about to do the same, pretty big fanbase but are about to find themselves in League One.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Old Second Division tbh.

Third. There was football before 1992 you know.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Third. There was football before 1992 you know.

Yeah, but I think the occasion when he was referring to was after 1992.

 

[Jono]

Oh and BB, Im not really that fussed on relegation, but I can see how it can help a league. Im more against the lack of a salary cap.

Yeah I think that's a point that is getting lost here.

When discussing the problems with equality in the EPL, we're not (or at least I am not) referring this to the idea of relegation. I don't mind it, it just wouldn't work in the AFL.

The salary cap however is a major issue, and how anyone could possibly deny that a salary cap wouldn't help the EPL's overall equality is beyond me. Yeah maybe Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal won't be as competitive in the Champions League (mind you, ideally all football leagues would enforce one), but if the premiership is more even, rather than only coming down to realistically four teams, and only two teams for half the season, then it can only be a good thing.

 

[steds]

If people are still watching it, evidently it is not.

I actually personally know about a dozen people who've stopped watching in the last two years. And we aren't alone.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I actually personally know about a dozen people who've stopped watching in the last two years. And we aren't alone.

Why is broadcasting so many Premiership matches so profitable for organisations like Sky, then?