Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

[Tom Halsey]

When discussing the problems with equality in the EPL, we're not (or at least I am not) referring this to the idea of relegation anyone could possibly deny that a salary cap wouldn't help the EPL's overall equality is beyond me. Yeah maybe Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal won't be as competitive in the Champions League (mind you, ideally all football leagues would enforce one), but if the premiership is more even, rather than only coming down to realistically four teams, and only two teams for half the season, then it can only be a good thing.

I'm majorly against a saary cap unless it is enforced in all Leagues worldwide (it would do more damage than help if not IMO) but as long as the cap is global, I'm for it.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah I think that's a point that is getting lost here.

When discussing the problems with equality in the EPL, we're not (or at least I am not) referring this to the idea of relegation. I don't mind it, it just wouldn't work in the AFL.

The salary cap however is a major issue, and how anyone could possibly deny that a salary cap wouldn't help the EPL's overall equality is beyond me. Yeah maybe Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal won't be as competitive in the Champions League (mind you, ideally all football leagues would enforce one), but if the premiership is more even, rather than only coming down to realistically four teams, and only two teams for half the season, then it can only be a good thing.

I can see pros & cons with the salary cap. Clearly the biggest pro would be a more even spread of the talent available; conversely tho the biggest con would be a big watering down of that talent. Essentially the main attraction for your top players is the fiscal inducements our clubs offer (which, by the by, makes Ronaldo's & Lampard's demands seem ludicrous; no league pays like we do now), if the money was removed from the equation Milan/Paris/Barcelona v Manchester for quality of life seems a no-brainer to me...

I'm majorly against a saary cap unless it is enforced in all Leagues worldwide (it would do more damage than help if not IMO) but as long as the cap is global, I'm for it.

We'd lose our current pre-eminence if there was a universal cap. It might mean more English talent in the top flight tho, so it has it's upside too.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah, but I think the occasion when he was referring to was after 1992.

Yeah, but old third division = third flight.

& twenty shillings = one pound.

 

[Jono]

Well I guess because international trades are so highly involved in club football, non-universal salary cap issues become a problem because it would hence result in other clubs buying all the top players. That's an understandable point, but what I cannot accept is people denying that there is an issue with money equalling dominance in the league, and claiming its 'the nature of the beast' and hence inevitable, if true, is just plain sad IMO. For eg., I don't much see the point of Manchester City, or Portsmouth. Do they have a realistic chance of winning the premiership next season? Do they have a realistic chance of winning it in 3 seasons?

That's the difference with the AFL IMO. Carlton, for example (Sorry Pasag ) have no chance of winning the premiership this year, simple as that. But in three years time they could be extremely competitive through the nature of draft picks and rebuilding phases which are forced upon clubs. Whereas in three years time, are even ten out of the twenty clubs going to have a chance at winning the English premiership? There's no wonder so many int'l fans are generally fans of one of the big 4, they may be glory hunters but why support Manchester City if you have no regional link with them?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Well I guess because international trades are so highly involved in club football, non-universal salary cap issues become a problem because it would hence result in other clubs buying all the top players. That's an understandable point, but what I cannot accept is people denying that there is an issue with money equalling dominance in the league, and claiming its 'the nature of the beast' and hence inevitable, if true, is just plain sad IMO. For eg., I don't much see the point of Manchester City, or Portsmouth. Do they have a realistic chance of winning the premiership next season? Do they have a realistic chance of winning it in 3 seasons?

For middle-sized clubs like Pompey just being in the Prem is a great effort, clubs who're "bigger" (in terms of support & catchment areas) are currently languishing outside of our top flight. Citeh tend to have a lot of good feeling because of the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend thing. Everyone hates ManUre (except their fans) & no-one dislikes then with such vehemence as Citeh. &, as the song goes, "City play for Manchester" (United not actually being in Manchester itself).

To answer your question tho: no. Outside of the big four no-one does or will do until there's a real sea-change; as I said in a previous post tho this issue is largely universal in football. The power is based with the few, richer clubs.

That's the difference with the AFL IMO. Carlton, for example (Sorry Pasag ) have no chance of winning the premiership this year, simple as that. But in three years time they could be extremely competitive through the nature of draft picks and rebuilding phases which are forced upon clubs. Whereas in three years time, are even ten out of the twenty clubs going to have a chance at winning the English premiership? There's no wonder so many int'l fans are generally fans of one of the big 4, they may be glory hunters but why support Manchester City if you have no regional link with them?

I guess that's the nature of following a club side from another country. Unless you have family links (IIRC Fuller said he follows Ipswich 'cos his granddad is from Suffolk) you're likely to latch onto one of the big clubs because that's who you're exposed to on the telly.

 

[Tom Halsey]

For eg., I don't much see the point of Manchester City, or Portsmouth. Do they have a realistic chance of winning the premiership next season? Do they have a realistic chance of winning it in 3 seasons?

No, but they have a realistic chance of winning it at some point IMO. And that is the hope that every club clings on to.

As I've said before, the top 4 do change, albeit slowly.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

No, but they have a realistic chance of winning it at some point IMO. And that is the hope that every club clings on to.

As I've said before, the top 4 do change, albeit slowly.

If CW still exists in 2056, and Portsmouth has managed to win the Premiership in one of those fifty seasons (without the help of a billion-pound cash injection, you know it when you see it), I'll walk from here to Fratton Park.

 

[Tom Halsey]

If CW still exists in 2056, and Portsmouth has managed to win the Premiership in one of those fifty seasons (without the help of a billion-pound cash injection, you know it when you see it), I'll walk from here to Fratton Park.

You're on.

And what's my forfeit?

 

[Matteh]

If CW still exists in 2056, and Portsmouth has managed to win the Premiership in one of those fifty seasons (without the help of a billion-pound cash injection, you know it when you see it), I'll walk from here to Fratton Park.

I'd be quite impressed to see a 70 (ish) year old man walk from Glimt(based purely on supported team) to Portsmouth.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

You're on.

And what's my forfeit?

Go to Fratton Park (not necessarily by foot) and cheer for Portsmouth for three games in a season. (Or for one game at Old Trafford, but I guess some things are beyond even forfeits)

 

[Matteh]

Speaking of this top 4 malarky. Just how much have PSG fallen off this year? It's the equivalent of Liverpool getting bored with going for the title and deciding to have a relegation battle.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I'd be quite impressed to see a 70 (ish) year old man walk from Glimt(based purely on supported team) to Portsmouth.

I expect a massive welcoming committee tbh.

 

[marc71178]

We'd lose our current pre-eminence if there was a universal cap. It might mean more English talent in the top flight tho, so it has it's upside too.

If it's more players in a much weaker competition, I'm not so sure that's that big an upside.

 

[GIMH]

For middle-sized clubs like Pompey just being in the Prem is a great effort, clubs who're "bigger" (in terms of support & catchment areas) are currently languishing outside of our top flight. Citeh tend to have a lot of good feeling because of the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend thing. Everyone hates ManUre (except their fans) & no-one dislikes then with such vehemence as Citeh. &, as the song goes, "City play for Manchester" (United not actually being in Manchester itself).

I know a fair few Liverpool fans who would disagree with that statement tbh

 

[BoyBrumby]

I know a fair few Liverpool fans who would disagree with that statement tbh

Possibly, but Liverpool fans aren't overly popular either, or at least aren't amongst any of us old enough to remember the 80s.

 

[GIMH]

Possibly, but Liverpool fans aren't overly popular either, or at least aren't amongst any of us old enough to remember the 80s.

Well they ain't that popular on large sections of Merseyside tbh

City fans are pretty dire though tbh.

 

[GIMH]

So I was reading the paper yesterday, and an article in it suggested that the structure of the English/French league has really helped our teams in the crunch games in this WC. It suggested that because there is no relegation in the Super 14, there is no real requirement for players in a bottom-half team to play as though their life depended on it, whereas someone like Regan knows exactly what to do in these tight, tense games, having seen it all before in the Premiership dogfight.

Thoughts?

 

[chaminda_00]

What if South Africa win the World Cup, would that make a joke of the theory.

Promotion/Regulation has its benefits but it depends on the size of competitions. Super 14s have semi finals which are us cut throat as promotion and regulations and probably provide better practise for WC knockout matches.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Just another Antipodean excuse for a choke, tbh.

Seriously, it's hard to say, really. I mean last time NZ put their failure down the their regression in the black (ha!) arts of scrum play; but this time they've rocked up with the best front five in the tournament and still jibbed it. Although, it must be said that Oz did shown the downside of a dogturd scrum in their QF.

 

[sideshowtim]

In regards to Top 4 domination....A 'Top 4' side not winning the Premiership is a definite possibility in coming years for mine. Essentially, you just need some rich oil tycoon, or some rich guy anyway...to buy your club. Funds to buy better players, make your side an attractive one, strengthen your academies...Profits will be there over time.

Chelsea were never really a brilliant club until Abramovich took over them (sure they won a few cups and were competitive, still weren't considered perenial title threats), and now they're considered title threats every year. I wouldn't be surprised if we see another 'Chelsea' so to speak, especially given how profitable football is these days...More people looking to buy. Tell someone in 1992 that Chelsea in 15 years would be winning Leagues and Cups left right and centre and progressing far into European tournaments. Probably wouldn't believe you.

BTW, I hate Chelsea, just using them as an example