**Official** Chappell-Hadlee Series

[FaaipDeOiad]

What'd he say there that is such an exaggeration?

The implication was that yesterday's loss reflects the lack of depth in Australian cricket. It's not so much an exaggeration as jumping the gun.

 

[Jono]

Various instances, such as the 2003/04 India in Aus test series, ODIs here and there over the years have suggested that Australia's depth, whilst still clearly the best in the world, has been exaggerated from various corners with claims that an Australia A team (and sometimes, NSW by themselves) would be competitive in international cricket on a regular basis.

 

[age_master]

And ??

That just proves the point that there is no depth..

Depth can take time to come through, also more inexperienced players are more likely not to do as well. Its not the sole reason for the failure but losing that many quality players will always have some impact.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Various instances, such as the 2003/04 India in Aus test series, ODIs here and there over the years have suggested that Australia's depth, whilst still clearly the best in the world, has been exaggerated from various corners with claims that an Australia A team (and sometimes, NSW by themselves) would be competitive in international cricket on a regular basis.

Yeah, and various instances such as the DLF Cup have indicated that Australia can beat most sides in the world most of the time even when missing a large number of key players. It doesn't indicate anything about Australia A (or NSW), and I think anyone who seriously claimed that a team with zero international experience would walk into international cricket and dominate lacks a bit of understanding about the game. You could argue a better case on simple ability, but it's just speculation anyway. I'd personally be happy to argue that if the entire Australian team was killed in a plane crash tomorrow we've got the depth to recover and remain competitive at international level reasonably quickly, but that's a bit of a different issue.

The fact of the matter is that Australia does have very good depth, particularly in batting, and particularly in ODIs. That doesn't mean that Australia never lose, whether they are at full strength or not. Australia have played pretty badly for five or so games now, especially the batting lineup, and I don't think yesterday's game reflected on the depth of the side so much as it reflected on the lack of form and confidence in the team at the moment. The way Australia shut up shop and struggled to accelerate after it became clear the pitch was a difficult one was very un-like the Australian side, as was the lack of belief in the bowling.

Nevertheless, I'd wait out the series before passing clear judgement.

 

[Bob Bamber]

Gilchrist
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Lee

Given theres a good chance that only two of them are starting the first match of the world cup.

They had an off day. But Australia seem to be dropping out of form just before the world cup. I don't think this tour without Gilchrist and Ponting is ideal preparation either

 

[Jono]

Yeah, and various instances such as the DLF Cup have indicated that Australia can beat most sides in the world most of the time even when missing a large number of key players.

Missing large number of key players? Who was missing during the DLF Cup in the same match? They rotated players, such as Clarke, Symonds etc. But to my knowledge, the only player consistently missing was Gilchrist.

In that regard, you can argue the same thing about SL, who have rested Murali and Vaas in the same series, and then rested their next best bowler in Malinga after that. Yet they were still competitive against India in India, despite a year ago losing 6-1 to the same team, with Vaas and Murali playing. I wouldn't then say that SL's depth is good enough to be competitive internationally though.

I mean Ponting misses the first 2 ODIs vs. South Africa in 2006, and Australia lose those 2. He returns, they win the next 2 and lose in a freak game in the 5th.

Even taking Symonds out has had a massive impact, more so then anyone thought it would have (hell I believe you dismissed it as not that big an issue on this board).

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Missing large number of key players? Who was missing during the DLF Cup in the same match? They rotated players, such as Clarke, Symonds etc. But to my knowledge, the only player consistently missing was Gilchrist.

Yeah, they rotated, but quite extensively. In the first game Australia were missing Gilchrist, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey, Lee and Hogg, for example. Though one of those players was out for Watson, who may have been in the first team at the time.

In that regard, you can argue the same thing about SL, who have rested Murali and Vaas in the same series, and then rested their next best bowler in Malinga after that. Yet they were still competitive against India at home, despite a year ago losing 6-1 to the same team, with Vaas and Murali playing. I wouldn't then say that SL's depth is good enough to be competitive internationally though.

SL haven't ever rotated quite as extensively as Australia though, or over such a long period. Anyway, I think it's fairly clear by now that Australia's rotation policy results in the occasional loss, but generally it shows that Australia can leave out key players and still win most games. Australia A is totally different, because you're leaving out every player, and at the absolute least there'd be a lengthy adjustment period for an Australia A team while they got used to international cricket, and inevitably a few players who simply aren't good enough. Yesterday wasn't Australia A, it was a weakened Australian side, and under normal circumstances you'd at least expect a far more competitive performance than yesterday.

Regarding the key losses, I think Ponting is always underrated as a loss when he rests. He's not only the best batsman in the world and a gun fielder, but a good captain as well, as evidenced by Hussey's struggles in that role, though presumably some of that is down to inexperience as captain. Symonds is important as well, but I think it'd be a bit off to blame the recent losses on him being out. He's been replaced by Hodge after all, who has done pretty well.

 

[pup11]

Look guys players like haddin,hodge,jacques, are all classy players and i back them to do well tomorrow.

 

[Craig]

His gf is a hair dresser and she wants his hair like that because it apparently makes him look younger. Major tool. He looks like a rat anyway.

At times I feel as though he has a face you just want to punch.

 

[pup11]

I feel very sad about the fact that whenever aussies lose some games the talks of them lossing form and them starting to be on decline begins. I think we all got to realize that aussie players are also human beings, they are playing non-stop cricket since 12th september 06 so naturally they would get drained(mentally and physically). World cup is still 22 days away so a lot can change in that time.

 

[Dizzy #4]

No Dizzy, No World Cup!

Heh, ****y nobody bowlers

Lousy "All Rounder Watson" All Round BAD!

Cruddy "Haddin is GOD, give him a go"

First place team my ass, one player team, yes


If thses aren't fixed, no Semis for the Aussies

 

[Macka]

Jaques, Hodge, Haddin (in current form), Watson are all very, very good players. You could
argue each is better than any other NZ batsman. But none are used to playing on pitches like that. In recent years, the international pitches Australia have played on in NZ have been very good (from memory... someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Look at Hayden: he's in good form, but he struggled badly on that pitch. You could say much the same about the Aussie line-up, although NZ bowled beautifully. Losing the toss also didn't help obviously.

What was up with Fleming during the post-match? When asked about Vincent's form, he said "Yeah, he gets too adventurous at times, so we need to rein him in sometimes". This the the guy that's been the backbone of our line-up since he joined the side, yet Fleming says that?

Just seemed odd to me.

 

[Dick Rockett]

What about Pakistan, have they lost by 10 wickets ever?

Yes.

 

[Salamuddin]

Personally I am not reading anything into any ODI played just before the WC.
TEams will be trying things out, keeping cards close to their chest etc.

I fully expect Australia to come out firing in the World Cup.

 

[Laurrz]

9am it starts in melbourne :S

 

[pup11]

Guys any news from the aussie camp who are the guys that are gonna play tomorrow, hopefully there are no further injuries in the squad.

 

[Macka]

Personally I am not reading anything into any ODI played just before the WC.
TEams will be trying things out, keeping cards close to their chest etc.

I fully expect Australia to come out firing in the World Cup.

Personally, I'd think now is the best time to have a stable squad. I'd think the time for "trying things out" would be, you know, the 4 years between world cups, but that's me. Going into a world cup in form would be a high priority for every team.

 

[Fiery]

At times I feel as though he has a face you just want to punch.

I feel the same way about Cameron White for some reason

 

[Fiery]

Personally I am not reading anything into any ODI played just before the WC.
TEams will be trying things out, keeping cards close to their chest etc.

Not too much of that going on in the NZ camp. They are playing their best side and trying to win every game

 

[pup11]

I would say that most of the aussie players are out of side due to injuries otherwise they would have played in this series for sure. Gilchrist is the only bloke who is resting, other than him all other aussie players are on the injury list.