The Greatest Allrounder Ever?

[silentstriker]

As Lilian Thompson suggests, Sobers was a better bowler than Hadlee was a batsman IMO.

 

[Saurav Ganguly]

Four pages in and no mention of Keith Miller

Keith miller(having batting average of 36) was good batsman as Imran khan(having batting average of 37) & Ian Botham(having batting average of 33) but Keith Miller(having bowling average of around 23 & ratio of 3.09 wkts/match) was not as good bowler as the other two i.e Imran Khan(who took 363 wickets @ 22 with the wkts/match ratio of 4.12) & Ian Botham(who took 383 wkts with a wkts/match ratio of 3.75).If I consider the fact that Imran played solely as a batsman for three years then Miller was not even half as good as Imran as a bowler.

Personally,I'll rank Keith Miller as the 3rd best allrounder(Imran & Botham being top 2) & was definitely better than likes of Gary Sobers,Kapil Dev,Richard Hadlee,Chris Cairns & Andrew Flintoff as an allrounder.

 

[Saurav Ganguly]

People are not attacking "those that dont think he was the greatest" but rather those that were clueless enough to leave him out of the options in such a poll.

I'm not in the league of those who believe that Sobers is the greatest allrounder of alltime,yet I'll say he's amongst top 5 & does deserve to be there as one of the poll options.The thread starter is probably a kid or a guy who doesn't know enough about the history of cricket,thats why he didn't include Keith Miller & Ian Botham in the poll options.

 

[Saurav Ganguly]

As Lilian Thompson suggests, Sobers was a better bowler than Hadlee was a batsman IMO.

agreed,thats because Sobers has more match winning performances with the ball than Hadlee with the bat.

 

[gunner]

stats wise it has to be sobers and kallis but in terms of influence on the game and bringing a meaning to the words "All Rounder" it is between these 4

 

[Lillian Thomson]

stats wise it has to be sobers and kallis but in terms of influence on the game and bringing a meaning to the words "All Rounder" it is between these 4

Please tell me your hair was on fire when you wrote that.

 

[Sanz]

Well sobers was a batsman who occasionaly bowled. stats wise he is an allrounder but you cant really call him an allrounder

 

[marc71178]

To get a better picture of Sobers, think of a person who can bat like Brian Lara, bowl pace like Chaminda Vaas, spin like Giles, field like Ponting and catch like Mark Waugh.

I guess in comparison AA bats like Vaas, bowls pace like Waugh, spin like Ponting, catches like Giles and fields like Lara!

 

[silentstriker]

Oh, and astonished Miller isn't even mentioned TBH.

 

[PhoenixFire]

The two greatest aren't even included you fool, Kieth Miller and Garry Sobers, I abstain.

 

[steds]

Well sobers was a batsman who occasionaly bowled. stats wise he is an allrounder but you cant really call him an allrounder

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

It may seem ludicrous to suggest so but much like Viv, Sobers did not work at his game much and if he had a hardnosed professional attitude like say Alan Border, then he would've easily avereaged 60+ with the bat and less than 30 with the ball.

You cannot say that for sure. It is more likely, but not certain.

 

[Fiery]

I'm not sure which is funnier, the notion that Sobers isn't a good enough bowler to be considered an all-rounder or that Richard Hadlee is a good enough batsman.

Neither of those things is funnier than you suggesting Hadlee was not a good enough batsman to be an allrounder. He would have made the NZ test team as a specialist batsman if he wasn't a bowler.

 

[Beleg]

It's pretty common knowledge that Sobers was and still is the best allrounder the game has ever seen. You don't need to have actually seen him playing in the flesh to appreciate that fact. Enough has been written about him and his stats speak for themself anyway.

What you said would have been true if it were a fact to start with, as things stand, it's an opinion, albiet one more valid than most.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Neither of those things is funnier than you suggesting Hadlee was not a good enough batsman to be an allrounder. He would have made the NZ test team as a specialist batsman if he wasn't a bowler.

To recap here we actually have someone loose on the streets who believes that......drum roll...........Richard Hadlee is a Test Class Batsman. That's more scary than funny.

 

[silentstriker]

Neither of those things is funnier than you suggesting Hadlee was not a good enough batsman to be an allrounder. He would have made the NZ test team as a specialist batsman if he wasn't a bowler.

New Zealand has a place in the top six for a guy who would average 27 in 85 matches?

 

[Fiery]

To recap here we actually have someone loose on the streets who believes that......drum roll...........Richard Hadlee is a Test Class Batsman. That's more scary than funny.

Don't worry, the streets of England are still safe. I'm on the other side of the world. John Wright even said in his book "Christmas in Rarotonga" that Hadlee was the best natural striker of the ball in the team and would have made the side as a batsman alone. This was NZ in the 70s and 80s remember and an average of 27 was quite respectable for an NZ batsman at that time. If he wasn't a bowler he would have had more time to concentrate on his batting and would have made the side easily. You may scoff but it's not as scary or funny as you think.

 

[silentstriker]

Don't worry, the streets of England are still safe. I'm on the other side of the world. John Wright even said in his book "Christmas in Rarotonga" that Hadlee was the best natural striker of the ball in the team and would have made the side as a batsman alone. This was NZ in the 70s and 80s remember and an average of 27 was quite respectable for an NZ batsman at that time. If he wasn't a bowler he would have had more time to concentrate on his batting and would have made the side easily. You may scoff but it's not as scary or funny as you think.

Umm, from 1970-1990, New Zealand averaged almost 30 runs per wicket (thats all eleven). So I don't see how an average of 27 would be good enough for top six.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Don't worry, the streets of England are still safe. I'm on the other side of the world. John Wright even said in his book "Christmas in Rarotonga" that Hadlee was the best natural striker of the ball in the team and would have made the side as a batsman alone. This was NZ in the 70s and 80s remember and an average of 27 was quite respectable for an NZ batsman at that time. If he wasn't a bowler he would have had more time to concentrate on his batting and would have made the side easily. You may scoff but it's not as scary or funny as you think.

I'm well aware that you're in New Zealand. It's the fact that you're on the same Planet that is scary.

 

[Fiery]

I'm well aware that you're in New Zealand. It's the fact that you're on the same Planet that is scary.

That's nice. If can get your hands on a copy of "Christmas In Rarotonga" written by John Wright who's career coincided with Hadlee and might know a thing or two more than you, there's a chapter called "King Dick" that might force you to rethink your dismissive attitude towards his batting ability.

 

[archie mac]

Keith miller(having batting average of 36) was good batsman as Imran khan(having batting average of 37) & Ian Botham(having batting average of 33) but Keith Miller(having bowling average of around 23 & ratio of 3.09 wkts/match) was not as good bowler as the other two i.e Imran Khan(who took 363 wickets @ 22 with the wkts/match ratio of 4.12) & Ian Botham(who took 383 wkts with a wkts/match ratio of 3.75).If I consider the fact that Imran played solely as a batsman for three years then Miller was not even half as good as Imran as a bowler.

Personally,I'll rank Keith Miller as the 3rd best allrounder(Imran & Botham being top 2) & was definitely better than likes of Gary Sobers,Kapil Dev,Richard Hadlee,Chris Cairns & Andrew Flintoff as an allrounder.

There is a thead on this forum (I could not be bothered to find it) called I think 'here, here led me your ear', I think you should read it