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***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Clarke is very good at batting in the lower order. I don't know about "slogging" (though he isn't a bad hitter), but he's extremely good at building an innings in a recovery and at scoring quickly in the late overs, and there's many examples of it. He averaged in excess of 40 with a great strike rate at number 6.
To add to Fullers point, his 50 from just 30 odd balls against SL in last years 2nd final was hardly slogging. Clarke, aside from Hussey, is arguably Australia's best batsmen in regards to finding the gap & boundary in the latter overs. Symonds & White can definetly hit it long, but when it comes to placement, Clarke has it over them IMO.
 

pup11

International Coach
There is no doubt that clarke is good batsman, but the thing is he takes some balls to get his innings going. The other thing is clarke himself admitted that batting at six(earlier), his job mainly was only about scoring quick runs which effected his batting in test matches. Since his comeback in test match arena his approach to both forms of the game has been much more controlled and sober.
 

pup11

International Coach
Anderson and lewis not playing tomorrow so england get ready for further humiliation. England will never forget this tour for "all the wrong reasons."
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
There is no doubt that clarke is good batsman, but the thing is he takes some balls to get his innings going. The other thing is clarke himself admitted that batting at six(earlier), his job mainly was only about scoring quick runs which effected his batting in test matches. Since his comeback in test match arena his approach to both forms of the game has been much more controlled and sober.
That's because he's been batting at 4, geez.

Look, last summer:
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard_ODI.asp?MatchCode=2412
http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard_ODI.asp?MatchCode=2427

That's ignoring the times he came in earlier in the innings and batted well. I hardly think a 28 ball 54 indicates he has to play himself in. There's countless examples throughout his career that Clarke is a very capable late overs batsman. He picks gaps well and has a good big shot. He can also play a controlled, orthodox innings when necessary, just like Hussey and Symonds.
 

pup11

International Coach
Just to accomodate watson in the team why should we tinker with clarke's spot, who by the way is a far better batsman than watson. Its not clarke can't bat like that but when he is doing well at no.4 then why should we change that?
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Just to accomodate watson in the team why should we tinker with clarke's spot, who by the way is a far better batsman than watson. Its not clarke can't bat like that but when he is doing well at no.4 then why should we change that?
Because Watson offers balance to the team, and he'd be a liability at 7. Clarke's a proven performer in the lower order, and the team would lose a lot less by having him at 6 than having Watson at 6 or 7. Hussey would be a fine batsman at 4 as well, but he bats at 6 or 7 for the balance of the side. The same applies to Clarke.
 

pup11

International Coach
Hayden at the most would play odi cricket till the world cup, after that he is bound to retire so watson has to wait till then, even if we bat clarke at 6 and hussey at 7 , but what do you do with white then. The best option is take watson to the world cup and let hayden open (that is if he does well in the upcoming games) and if he doesn't do well make hayden sit and open with watson.
 

pup11

International Coach
From what i have heard ponting saying is that he believes white is a wicket taking option for the world cup, and he will ball there as their main spinner.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
...except then you miss out on Watson's bowling, which White doesn't provide.
I'm starting to think that White isn't on the cards for the World Cup after a kind of mediocre series with bat, ball and in the field. After Haydens century I'm predicting Watson to bat at 7, acting as a fourth seamer with Hogg coming in at 8. Looks like a pretty decent line up although I do question Watsons ability to finish off an innings with a few big sixes.
 

pup11

International Coach
I don't think they are even thinking of taking hogg to the world cup, the selectors have made up there mind they want four seamers in the playing 11. And going by what ponting said the other day white is gonna bowl in the world cup with symonds and clarke.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
Yes, they want four seamers, Watson is a seamer and a fairly proven one in ODI's. He will act as the fourth seamer. And Hogg is definitely in the minds of the selectors after his run the other day. 2/16 off 7 overs is very good and he bowled a very nice spell. I think it'd be a massive gamble and fairly arrogant if we relied on White, Symonds and Clarke to bowl the remaining 10. Plus, Hogg adds a fair bit with the bat.
 

howardj

International Coach
Because Watson offers balance to the team, and he'd be a liability at 7. Clarke's a proven performer in the lower order, and the team would lose a lot less by having him at 6 than having Watson at 6 or 7. Hussey would be a fine batsman at 4 as well, but he bats at 6 or 7 for the balance of the side. The same applies to Clarke.
As I've said before, that's a weird rationale - shunting two significantly better players right down the order (so far down that they are unlikely to be in a position to build a substantial innings) just to accomodate an inferior batsman. Moreover, it completely glosses over the fact that number four is one of the most important positions in the line-up, and that you're making out number seven to be some sort of important position in the line-up (very unlikely with Australia's top order and on the flat pitches in the Carribean). Australia's prospects in the World Cup are not going to hinge on who bats at seven. Whereas they most certainly will hang on how our top order performs.

Hussey at seven, and facing 10-20 balls per innings? No thanks. Our chances are not going to hinge on 10-20 balls out of a 300 ball innings.
 

sideshowtim

Banned
I agree, and it's no use acting like Watson can't hit them far either. He's made a couple of very quick international fifties and is very strong. He can hit the ball a long way. He is a good number 7. Our likely side in my eyes:

Gilchrist
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
Watson
Hogg
Lee
Bracken
McGrath
 

howardj

International Coach
Great to see Tait included. I have a theory about the World Cup and that is that, on the small grounds and flattish wickets over there, it will be very difficult to restrict teams to low scores through containment alone. Rather, the only real way to restrict the opposition will be to take early wickets and then regular wickets throughout the innings. To that end, I'd much rather someone like Tait be selected in the final 15, if it comes down to a choice between he and Clark.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
As I've said before, that's a weird rationale - shunting two significantly better players right down the order (so far down that they are unlikely to be in a position to build a substantial innings) just to accomodate an inferior batsman. Moreover, it completely glosses over the fact that number four is one of the most important positions in the line-up, and that you're making out number seven to be some sort of important position in the line-up (very unlikely with Australia's top order and on the flat pitches in the Carribean). Australia's prospects in the World Cup are not going to hinge on who bats at seven. Whereas they most certainly will hang on how our top order performs.

Hussey at seven, and facing 10-20 balls per innings? No thanks. Our chances are not going to hinge on 10-20 balls out of a 300 ball innings.
Watson can do a perfectly good job at 4 though. And of course, the order can quite easily change as needed.

Australia will be a stronger team with Watson at 4 and Hussey at 7 than the other way around, most of the time. If Australia are 2/200 after 40, obviously Hussey would be a better choice that Watson, and that's when you'd change the order, but Watson's going to perform a lot better with time to build an innings, while Hussey is perfectly capable in any situation. You'd have a point if Watson was an average batsman in general, but he's clearly not. He's a very successful batsman in the top order but struggles in the late overs when not set, while Hussey averages 80 batting at 6 and 7.

The fact is, Hussey is the best batsman in the team, give or take Ponting. He's better than Clarke and Symonds as well. The reason he bats below them is because he's the most flexible batsman available. Watson needs to be in the team for the flexibiltiy he adds through performance in two disciplines, and that flexibility will be hampered if he's batting down in the order. And, when it comes down to it, Australia are going to make more runs in limited overs cricket if batsmen who need time at the crease bat higher in the order, which is why Symonds bats at 5, and why Watson should bat at 4. Watson's not going to make 50 off 90 and waste deliveries or anything up the order, and indeed has the potential to play a similar role to Martyn I think, and play some pretty good longer innings in the middle order, but has shown many times that coming in with a few overs left he's nothing special. Hussey on the other hand will maximise whatever overs he does get, whether he comes in at 2/200 with 10 overs left, 5/80 with 30 overs left or 5/300 with two overs left.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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From what i have heard ponting saying is that he believes white is a wicket taking option for the world cup, and he will ball there as their main spinner.
Then why won't he bowl him in far less important matches like...oh, I dunno... these?
 

pup11

International Coach
Ponting has a theory to not bowling white at this stage, as he wants him to ease into international stage and thats why he gives him 2 or 3 overs here and there.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Where do you get your information regarding the use of White at the World Cup? Because Ponting may pose some strange tactics, but not testing out White before the World Cup and then intending to use him as a wicket-taker at the tournament? That's just stupid.
 

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