***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series

[pup11]

hi guys

hi mates new to this forum,i m a huge aus fan so my opener is watto coz he lends great depth to the team. david hussey and thronley are my options for no.7, one thing i don't like about punter is the way he treats his spinners hoggy and whitey(needs to really get his leggies right) he makes roy bowl more overs than them and before them which can upset their confidence and then what is the point selecting then then!!

 

[pup11]

I think bowling is a real problem for aus coz the spin back up is looking quite weak dan cullen is no murali white is basically a medium pacer and george has been almost discarded from the team , stuey clark is looking poor as always in the coloured clothing(even though he got a four-for he never looked convincing) , other fast men are gr8 mitch ,bracko, pidge ,binga. Hilfy was good . Why are they not playing tait . spin is the real worry.

 

[MoxPearl]

hmmm some moments there in that game.. not 2 shabby .... some horrible fielding which is norm our best part.. my team for 2moro would be

Fleming
Astle
Taylor
Fulton
McMillan
Oram
McCullum
Vetorri
Franklin
Gillespie
Patel

Thats a far far far deeper batting team...and a better bowling one aswell

 

[Prince EWS]

He's significantly younger than those 3 (29 as opposed to 31, 32, 35), younger players does not mean <25, australian batsmen usually aren't good enough that young anyway. Jaques and Hussey are far better one day prospects than Hodge, Katich or Hayden. Jaques has had a patchy season, sure, but NSW is not so blessed as to be in any position to drop him. Still, his next innings will need to be very good before he'd be worth a spot, which is why he was not my first suggestion, though he would have been early in the season.

Hussey however is coming off a good innings, he's a big match player like his brother, with the same mix of shot player/accumulator that makes a great ODI player. If anyone's worth a shot in the middle order, it's him, he's got the je ne sais qua.

I don't see what's wrong with White and Hogg as a lower middle order myself if you get a decent partner for Gilchrist, that should be plenty of batting, you only need a specialist at 7 if you can't trust your top order. White was not selected for his feats at no 7 but for at 3, 4 and 5. I like a deep batting order, I really do, but who else do you put down there who's a good enough bowler and a better lower order bat than Hogg and who's not wasted or out of place at 7? Hopes? (leading ranger cup wicket taker) Assuming Watson returns a 4th specialist seamer is superfluous and hogg's your no 8 anyway.

White is better suited at 7 than Watson, but I still think it's too low. Unless Clarke opens there's no room in the middle order anyway so it's moot. Then they have to replace Hayden from the outside, in which case Jaques couldn't be any worse than Hayden, or better yet give Klinger (leading ranger cup run scorer) a go. Hayden is not a long term option, so he has to be performing outside of his skin to justify his spot where the alternatives might actually benefit from a little good faith.

You are right about NSW not being particularly plentiful in terms of batting stocks - but that is the only thing that has saved him really. His form in both forms of the game has been completely dire and to select him now would not only send a bad message to those performing in domestic cricket, but would also be disastrous to his career. The chances of him actually scoring any runs would be low as he can't even score any in state cricket - so then he would have a blight on his record and his confidence to bat at the international level could also be damaged.

Hussey would not be the worst selection of all time... but I just never saw him as an international standard player. He got dropped from the Victorian first class team last year (granted, different form of the game, but still..) and he seems to be fairly inconsistent. I'd back him to knock the ball around a bit at 6 and feed the strike to another batsman when setting a target, but I wouldn't back him to take an attack apart or prevent a collapse against good bowling.

I don't like the idea of Hogg batting seven - and I don't like it one bit with White at 6. It really is a needless amount of bowling and the batting seems a little thin considering White hasn't really fired yet. As or his batting position... although he bats in the top order for Victoria, he really is the perfect #7, as was shown in his first innings of this series. He can come out and score quickly from the outset, really adding the icing to the cake, if you will. He is basically selected for this ability and his ability to bowl an over or two - I don't think he is an ODI class #6 yet. That would be compounded by the fact that Hogg is not an ODI class #7 either, and the fact that you'd have a makeshift opener (Clarke) in the side. The bowling hasn't been a big problem at all for the Australians but the batting has caused a few jitters at times - bringing in a bowler for an opening batsman and then making the form two batsmen move positions isn't really a good option IMO.

 

[Prince EWS]

hmmm some moments there in that game.. not 2 shabby .... some horrible fielding which is norm our best part.. my team for 2moro would be

Fleming
Astle
Taylor
Fulton
McMillan
Oram
McCullum
Vetorri
Franklin
Gillespie
Patel

Thats a far far far deeper batting team...and a better bowling one aswell

How is it a deeper batting team? Franklin batted 9 in the last game - it has the same depth to it. If anything, the batting is weaker overall - Marshall replaced by Oram.

 

[Prince EWS]

hi mates new to this forum,i m a huge aus fan so my opener is watto coz he lends great depth to the team. david hussey and thronley are my options for no.7, one thing i don't like about punter is the way he treats his spinners hoggy and whitey(needs to really get his leggies right) he makes roy bowl more overs than them and before them which can upset their confidence and then what is the point selecting then then!!

White is selected for his batting - not his bowling. Just like Symonds. Symonds has a lot more experience and has greater control over his bowling - hence him bowling more overs.

 

[Bahnz]

New Zealand really did throw away a rare opportunity to win last night, but I think they'll gain enough encouragement from it to rally and beat England, especially with the return of Oram. The side will be:

Nathan Astle
Stephen Fleming
Ross Taylor
Peter Fulton
Craig McMillan
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Franklin/Mason (depending on the pitch, if there's a bit of life in it, go for Mason)
Gillespie
Patel

Eventually we can hopefully replace Fulton with Styris. Bit harsh, but I think Macca is a better fit at 5, and Fulton seems to struggle to score except when the bowlers drop it in short.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Astle and Fleming (who is badly out of form) are both fragile when opening, especially against good swing bowling; they always have been, but their form and confidence was much better than now. At best only one of the opening pair lasts, which simply places pressure on the other. NZ need a specialist opener with the ability to nudge the ball around while the his partner (preferably Astle) is attacking the bowling. It's time to bring in Cumming - the form opener in domestic cricket - and stop creating openers out of middle order players. Fleming needs to move down to #3.

And it's time to send Marshall home. What a ridiculous move to put an out of form Marshall in at #3 after the loss of an early wicket. This was yet another of Bracewell's "Let's try this and see if it works" ideas that had a very low probability of working - and of course didn't. Until we get a coach that uses logical, methodical decision-making NZ is doomed to fail. It's so bloody frustrating!!!

 

[pup11]

Thats what i am saying whitey can't keep his place by his batting alone coz there is far better no.7's in australia whitey has really failed to perform under pressure. If he is not going to bowl there will be no decent spin option in the side symo bowls well but he is not a world class spinner and if roy is going to bowl more overs than hoggy and whitey than we should pick a pure batsman than so called spinner in the side.

 

[kwigibo]

That would be compounded by the fact that Hogg is not an ODI class #7 either, and the fact that you'd have a makeshift opener (Clarke) in the side. The bowling hasn't been a big problem at all for the Australians but the batting has caused a few jitters at times - bringing in a bowler for an opening batsman and then making the form two batsmen move positions isn't really a good option IMO.

I don't think there is such a thing as a one day opener the same way there is for FC cricket. Hayden may be a test opener but Clarke is a better OD player and has played very well in that position. Katich is not an opener and they persisted with him for a long time. Klinger is not necessarily an opener but he's made a lot of runs there this year. Gilchrist is not an opener otherwise.

Clarke is not any more makeshift than the alternatives. What he is is a proven performer in limited overs games. And White is a good 7 in the 1st innings, but if all he's there for is a quick 30/40 when batting first, it's a wasted position. Hogg could do that job, he's done it before, but most of the time he's at 8 or even 9 and never bats enough, he's only been dismissed 30 times in 89 matches. But he's as old as Hayden and won't be around much longer anyway.

How about this for a compromise

Gilchrist
Clarke
Ponting
Symonds
Hussey
Hussey
White
Lee
Bracken
Johnson
Mcgrath

Bring in Watson for Hussey when he's fit, Haddin for Gilchrist when he retires, and ditto Hilfenhaus/Clark for McGrath. If Hogg against all odds gets a game, then Hopes could be your number 7 maybe.

or

Gilchrist
Klinger
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
White
Lee
Bracken
Johnson
Mcgrath

Really, just as long as they don't persist with Hayden (or Katich) it'll be alright.

 

[MoxPearl]

Astle and Fleming (who is badly out of form) are both fragile when opening, especially against good swing bowling; they always have been, but their form and confidence was much better than now. At best only one of the opening pair lasts, which simply places pressure on the other. NZ need a specialist opener with the ability to nudge the ball around while the his partner (preferably Astle) is attacking the bowling. It's time to bring in Cumming - the form opener in domestic cricket - and stop creating openers out of middle order players. Fleming needs to move down to #3.

And it's time to send Marshall home. What a ridiculous move to put an out of form Marshall in at #3 after the loss of an early wicket. This was yet another of Bracewell's "Let's try this and see if it works" ideas that had a very low probability of working - and of course didn't. Until we get a coach that uses logical, methodical decision-making NZ is doomed to fail. It's so bloody frustrating!!!

Yes

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't think there is such a thing as a one day opener the same way there is for FC cricket. Hayden may be a test opener but Clarke is a better OD player and has played very well in that position. Katich is not an opener and they persisted with him for a long time. Klinger is not necessarily an opener but he's made a lot of runs there this year. Gilchrist is not an opener otherwise.

Yeah, I'd agree with that really. I just think that, given the fact that the batting seems to be the problem, bringing in a bowler for a batsman isn't really the answer. Especially since it would involve moving the two form batsmen into different roles.

How about this for a compromise

Gilchrist
Clarke
Ponting
Symonds
Hussey
Hussey
White
Lee
Bracken
Johnson
Mcgrath

Bring in Watson for Hussey when he's fit, Haddin for Gilchrist when he retires, and ditto Hilfenhaus/Clark for McGrath. If Hogg against all odds gets a game, then Hopes could be your number 7 maybe.

Yep, sounds good to me really. Once Watson comes back into the side though, I'd play Hogg ahead of one of the seamers. Five fasy bowlers really seems quite ridiculous when you have Brad Hogg in your ranks.

 

[NZTailender]

Katich and Hodge have been tried and failed....

FFS, it's not like he constantly got out for ducks. He averages 35 in his ODI career (with a List A average of 38) and averages 37 as an opener.

Brad Hodge has been a failure though, with an average 13.16. How you can say Katich is a failure along with Hodge is beyond me as it's plain to see who's the failure out of the two.
The attitude from most on this forum that Katich is a poor player really ****s me. He may not be the greatest option available but he's not a bad batsman as everyone seems to think he is.

 

[Prince EWS]

FFS, it's not like he constantly got out for ducks. He averages 35 in his ODI career (with a List A average of 38) and averages 37 as an opener.

Brad Hodge has been a failure though, with an average 13.16. How you can say Katich is a failure along with Hodge is beyond me as it's plain to see who's the failure out of the two.
The attitude from most on this forum that Katich is a poor player really ****s me. He may not be the greatest option available but he's not a bad batsman as everyone seems to think he is.

I actually suggested Katich as an option on an earlier page.

The fact is though, he was given an extended run in the side and was then dropped. He obviously failed as an ODI opener in the eyes of the selectors or they wouldn't have dropped the guy.

 

[NZTailender]

I actually suggested Katich as an option on an earlier page.

The fact is though, he was given an extended run in the side and was then dropped. He obviously failed as an ODI opener in the eyes of the selectors or they wouldn't have dropped the guy.

Sorry, didn't read that (about being an option). Was responding to him being a failure.


Was he a failure? Or just out of form? He seemed to sort of tail off after his 42* in Bangladesh. I guess scoring 92 runs @ 23 in 4 innings at the DLF cup did it, despite in the first match he outscored Jaques (2), was run out by Hayden (49), was out-scored by Hayden (54 to Katich's 9) and out-scoring Watson (18). But in that final innings, he made 25 from 66, which I guess was the straw that made contact with the camel's back causing him to sue for damages and mental anguish.


It's just a pity because I've seen him a few times in free flight for NSW and he can really belt the ball and rotate the strike. I guess the pressure of trying to keep his spot in the side was too much, and was deservedly dropped

 

[Fiery]

It's quite common for a guy who has been dropped to return if his replacement/s has failed to be any better. Craig McMillan is a prime example of that. Better the devil you know sometimes and Katich was hardly a complete failure anyway. Just depends on the best available option and it's probably Katich at the moment.

 

[NZTailender]

I guess it reflects more on me but if Katich is picked in this series I will probably be the only one excited at his return to the side (and no, not because it might give NZ a chance to win a game )

 

[Fiery]

I guess it reflects more on me but if Katich is picked in this series I will probably be the only one excited at his return to the side (and no, not because it might give NZ a chance to win a game )

If we don't win tomorrow I'll start following bowls instead

 

[Johnners]

It's quite common for a guy who has been dropped to return if his replacement/s has failed to be any better. Craig McMillan is a prime example of that. Better the devil you know sometimes and Katich was hardly a complete failure anyway. Just depends on the best available option and it's probably Katich at the moment.

Aside from the fact that he's in no form for NSW. IMO the best available opening options atm come from within the current team. Whilst Clarke & Hussey are 2 of the best middle order players in the world, the backup options for the Middle Order in domestic look a lot stronger than the back-up openers do.

A suggestion:

Gilly
Clarke
Ponting
North/D Hussey/Hodge/Haddin (Until Watsons back)
Symonds
M Hussey
D Hussey/White/Haddin
Hogg/Johnson (depending on pitch)
Lee
Bracken
McGrath

The problem with Playing both Haddin & Gilly is where do they field?? Haddin is easily in the top 5 OD batsmen atm out of the National team

 

[vic_orthdox]

The problem with Playing both Haddin & Gilly is where do they field?? Haddin is easily in the top 5 OD batsmen atm out of the National team

Exactly, which is why Haddin won't play. And also why, in a way, it's quite smart of Tim Paine to be playing at times as a keeper and as a specialist bat, because then he is leaving himself open to being able to get a guernsey for Australia as both if he is stuck in the same situation as Haddin.