***Official*** West Indies in India

[Pratters]

I think great that Ganguly is back in the one day team. His problems were really in the test arena and it was ridiculous that he was not given another one day game in so much time.

Just to point out, Ganguly's record in one day cricket over past four years when he did play was not pathetic particularly when you take into account the poor performances some other players have had over the past 2 years -

2002 (29y 177d) 32 30 1 1114 117* 86 80 38.41 1 9 2
2003 (30y 177d) 22 22 4 756 112* 111* 107* 42.00 3 2 2
2004 (31y 177d) 31 30 1 947 90 90 82 32.65 0 7 2
2005 (32y 177d) 13 13 1 209 51 31 26 17.41 0 1 1

A bad 2005 and an average 2004 but given the history of him in one day cricket, it was absurd that he did not get another opportunity if not any thing else since 2005 in one day cricket while getting weird chances in the test team as an all rounder and what not.

I had firmly believed when he was dropped that he would play in the world cup (though I didn't say it specifically on the forums) and hopefully he will have a good next few months as a one day cricketer.

 

[adharcric]

Ganguly has returned as a far stronger cricketer after being dropped entirely from the national set-up. Had he been retained in the one-day side, I'm afraid he wouldn't be as motivated as he is now. Chappell has really helped Zaheer and Dada by getting them dropped. Too early to say but we might see it again with Sehwag. Let's hope so.

I would love to see the Sourav and Sachin unite at the top but we might need Sachin in the middle-order.

 

[Pratters]

Ganguly has returned as a far stronger cricketer after being dropped entirely from the national set-up. Had he been retained in the one-day side, I'm afraid he wouldn't be as motivated as he is now. Chappell has really helped Zaheer and Dada by getting them dropped. Too early to say but we might see it again with Sehwag. Let's hope so.

Two points mate -

I didn't say Ganguly shouldn't have been dropped from the odi side. I do not have a very strong opinion where that is concerned (though I have had a strong opinion regarding him for tests but that is besides the point). My point was that it was ridiculous that he wasn't recalled earlier.

Also, I do not see how Chappell has helped Ganguly and Zaheer. He was for the ouster of Ganguly etc from the team. It is Ganguly's strong determination that lead him to come back (while looking much fitter than a few months back).

If we say Chappell helped, it would be off the mark because then for anything which will happen, we will say Chappell helped the side because in the end it worked out better than we anticipated. It is like saying in hindi bhagwan ne accha kiya (God did good) when some thing happened and not praise our own deeds for the results.

There are a lot of aspects for which a Chappell or selectors or team management or the players are credited or criticised often depending on our beliefs where fans and media are concerned [I am not directly accusing of it here - just saying regarding a particular aspect I notice] but I will not jump the gun to give more credit or criticise more than measurably personally.

I do see where you are coming from when you say Chappell's actions were indirectly responsible for Ganguly coming back stronger but I wouldn't use the words like help there but that's just me..

 

[adharcric]

I didn't say Ganguly shouldn't have been dropped from the odi side. I do not have a very strong opinion where that is concerned (though I have had a strong opinion regarding him for tests but that is besides the point). My point was that it was ridiculous that he wasn't recalled earlier.

Ganguly wasn't exactly scoring runs in domestic (or county earlier) cricket until very recently. The More-led crop of selectors really butchered the Ganguly situation and there was no way they were going to recall him. Ganguly's return to form (albeit not a blazing one) in domestic cricket coincided with the entrance of open-minded selectors and the pathetic displays of the Indian team in the one-day series against South Africa. Did you really expect him to be recalled a while ago?

Also, I do not see how Chappell has helped Ganguly and Zaheer. He was for the ouster of Ganguly etc from the team. It is Ganguly's strong determination that lead him to come back (while looking much fitter than a few months back).

If we say Chappell helped, it would be off the mark because then for anything which will happen, we will say Chappell helped the side because in the end it worked out better than we anticipated. It is like saying in hindi bhagwan ne accha kiya (God did good) when some thing happened and not praise our own deeds for the results.

There are a lot of aspects for which a Chappell or selectors or team management or the players are credited or criticised often depending on our beliefs where fans and media are concerned [I am not directly accusing of it here - just saying regarding a particular aspect I notice] but I will not jump the gun to give more credit or criticise more than measurably personally.

Ganguly definitely deserves the credit for his remarkable comeback story. He has shown determination and a strong will to play for India and recovered from a terrible position. Still, a coach can really help a player out by giving him time off and in that sense Chappell did Ganguly a favor (not everyone will understand, perhaps). By no means am I giving Chappell credit for the battle that Ganguly waged, but it's something that should be acknowledged IMO.

EDIT: I see you've acknowledged it.

 

[Pratters]

Ganguly wasn't exactly scoring runs in domestic (or county earlier) cricket until very recently. The More-led crop of selectors really butchered the Ganguly situation and there was no way they were going to recall him. Ganguly's return to form (albeit not a blazing one) in domestic cricket coincided with the entrance of open-minded selectors and the pathetic displays of the Indian team in the one-day series against South Africa. Did you really expect him to be recalled a while ago?

He was being recalled in tests a lot wasn't he? (as an all rounder and what not). Why not recall him for the one dayers at that time when he was being recalled to tests particularly when he did not have that crap a record in one day cricket except for a 13 matches. (2004 - an average of early 30 comparable to others like Sehwag).

Also, the other one day players weren't exactly being very consistent were they from 2005 uptill now.

Also, when More said they would never recall Ganguly in his tenure at least, it was seen as some as a good movie as it shut the Ganguly controversy back then. For me it was the worst thing a selector can say. You can never shut the door on any one and it was no surprise to see More retract his statement later. Regardless of whether Ganguly deserved to be dropped or not, Chappell it easily appeared (from his email at the least among other instances) that Chappell didn't want Ganguly in the side no matter what - not a right attitude really.

If the selection committee wasn't being chaired by Vengsarkar (now who at least seems to have the right intentions ) I doubt if Ganguly would have made a come back even right now. Also, had the opinions not been as polar regarding Ganguly earlier, I have little doubt that he would have made an earlier one day come back.

 

[adharcric]

Fair enough. I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with Chappell wanting Ganguly out when his attitude and work ethic weren't at the required level.
Chappell was grossly portrayed as a villain by the media but I personally refuse to believe that. He made a bold, tough decision and didn't have anything personal against Ganguly.

 

[silentstriker]

Ganguly is the one that got Chappell his job, pretty much. If anything, it must have been tough for Greg to do that, but it was the right decision at the time.

And it is clear to see he has come back with more determination this time around, good for him. I still think we need to start cleaning house in our batting lineup though.

 

[Dover 1]

Well as you guys must know by now, the official WI team to India has been announced.The team for the World Cup has also been announced. No Dwayne Smith, no Corey Collymore. What do you think? Looking foward to your opinios

 

[Dover 1]

Well as you guys must know by now, the official WI team to India has been announced.The team for the World Cup has also been announced. No Dwayne Smith, no Corey Collymore. What do you think? Looking foward to your opinios

Brian Lara
Ian Bradshaw
Dwane Bravo
Shivnarine Shanderpaul
Rayad Emritt
Chris Gayle
Runako Morton
Darren Powell
Danesh Ramdin
Darren Sammy
Marlon Samuels
Lendll Simmons
Devon Smith
Jerome Taylor

Nb:- note also the omission of Fidel Edwards

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well as you guys must know by now, the official WI team to India has been announced.The team for the World Cup has also been announced. No Dwayne Smith, no Corey Collymore. What do you think? Looking foward to your opinios

AFAIK, only the 30-man provisional squad has been announced for the WC. Collymore and Smith are in it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Brian Lara
Ian Bradshaw
Dwane Bravo
Shivnarine Shanderpaul
Rayad Emritt
Chris Gayle
Runako Morton
Darren Powell
Danesh Ramdin
Darren Sammy
Marlon Samuels
Lendll Simmons
Devon Smith
Jerome Taylor

Nb:- note also the omission of Fidel Edwards

Player rotation. They're giving the likes of De Smith, Simmns, Sammy, Da Powell and Emrit the chance to push for WC selection. It's Chanderpaul btw.

 

[Dravid]

According to reports, Sachin is moving down the order, and Ganguly will open. I'm not sure about this move. Sure Ganguly can open, but he hasn't opened in years, where Sachin has been our full time opener along with sehwag for a while now. I would keep Ganguly in the middle order, Sachin and Gambhir/Uthappa opening.

 

[adharcric]

Dravid, have you been reading the thread?

On the slow-and-low pitches of the West Indies, you need to churn the singles and doubles in the middle overs once the shine comes off the ball. Tendulkar is far superior to Ganguly at rotating the strike. As for Ganguly not having opened in a while, that doesn't really matter. He opened List-A matches for Bengal during his time off and he's one of the greatest one-day opening batsmen ever; somehow, I doubt he's "forgotten" how to open. Besides, the new ball is not too threatening in the West Indies. Ganguly should open alongside (preferably) Uthappa or Gambhir. Good move.

 

[honestbharani]

Who is this Badrinath guy who's name I've seen bandied about

I know he's batsman, but he is young or old, or the next big Indian batting talent or something?

He is already 25 or 26, a right hand middle order batter and he is more Chanderpaul than Lara, more STrauss than Pieterson.


I hope you got my point.

 

[Pratters]

Dravid, have you been reading the thread?

Chappell had mentioned few openers would be brought down 2-3 days ago or some thing on those lines..

 

[Pratters]

Okay it was mentioned in Sportcentre India that in the 61 matches Chappell has coached the Indian team, the batting line up has been changed 58 times. Now I am not sure if they only included the top half or the whole XI but it does put into figures the amount of toggling which has been done.

In other news, Ganguly donated his bat to raise money for a kid who was ill.. always good to hear such news.

 

[Nishant]

Dravid, have you been reading the thread?

On the slow-and-low pitches of the West Indies, you need to churn the singles and doubles in the middle overs once the shine comes off the ball. Tendulkar is far superior to Ganguly at rotating the strike. As for Ganguly not having opened in a while, that doesn't really matter. He opened List-A matches for Bengal during his time off and he's one of the greatest one-day opening batsmen ever; somehow, I doubt he's "forgotten" how to open. Besides, the new ball is not too threatening in the West Indies. Ganguly should open alongside (preferably) Uthappa or Gambhir. Good move.

i like the move as well! As u said, tendulkar is better than ganguly at churning out singles. Plus, ganguly was opening the last time he played ODIs...actually, wait......oh yeh...he was opening when tendulkar was injured but then moved down the order where he failed and was kicked out. Hope that ganguly will be fine at the top...and tendulkar will strengthen the middle order. Ganguly might do well, but isnt Mr. Reliable yet...so he shouldnt be in the middle order!

 

[Nishant]

Okay it was mentioned in Sportcentre India that in the 61 matches Chappell has coached the Indian team, the batting line up has been changed 58 times. Now I am not sure if they only included the top half or the whole XI but it does put into figures the amount of toggling which has been done.

In other news, Ganguly donated his bat to raise money for a kid who was ill.. always good to hear such news.

Excellent news! But, sorry to sound so negative (this is more of a SS comment) but i think its just a publicity stunt! Any thoughts?

 

[Pratters]

Excellent news! But, sorry to sound so negative (this is more of a SS comment) but i think its just a publicity stunt! Any thoughts?

Even if there are publicity stunts in charities by celebrities, because they reap benefit to some one needy, I am all for them. Some one is benefitting and if a celebrity starts doing it all the more because he gets benefity, a) they get some benefit too and so whats the harm and b) it means more such charities can take place.

So it is all good.

 

[Sanz]

Chappell has really helped Zaheer and Dada by getting them dropped.

BS.