***Official*** Pakistan in South Africa

[wpdavid]

I'm struggling to get my head round this argument that we need to work out whether there was racist intent behind apparently recist comments. If people are stupid enough to say these things, then that's it. Otherwise anyone can get away with anything, because, apparently, they didn't intend what they said to be racist

Still, not a lot to enjoy about this episode. Take your pick from the behaviour of some of the pakistani supporters, Gibbs' little contribution, Arthur's hypocrisy, etc, etc.

 

[adharcric]

As Brumby mentioned with his Spain example, we do associate animals with racial slurs nowadays. So even while Gibbs may or may not have intended it to be racist, implications exist.

Right. I just don't understand why Gibbs' comment should be offensive to Pakistanis as a whole (and hence would be racist).
He just attacked the people in the crowd and addressed them as Pakistanis. Am I missing something?

 

[Pratters]

I just don't understand why Gibbs' comment should be offensive to Pakistanis as a whole (and hence would be racist).
He just attacked the people in the crowd and addressed them as Pakistanis. Am I missing something?

There are 3/4/5 things I would need to address there -

1) Why Gibbs' comments would be offensive to Pakistanis.
2) And hence why it would be racist (or not).
3) The crowd aspect.
4) More pointers on possible further aspects.

We can discuss it over MSN or google talk or email if you want. I have explained on apsects why the Gibbs comment can be construed to be racist and I don't want to go into other aspects on the forum..

 

[pasag]

Yeah who cares what you classify it as, it was a dire comment and is unacceptable on the field (or off it for that matter), regardless of whether it happens all time or not.

Potentially missing 10 days of cricket does seem abit harsh to me, although I have little sympathy for Gibbs atm. Still yet to see a proper apology as well, anyone has a link to one?

 

[telsor]

Last Year, in Australia, a few members of the crowd abused South African Players, In Afrikaans and the outcry was that Australians were racist and should be banned from holding further games.

Obviously, the nationality of the crowd members doesn't matter, merely their location, so surely the call should now be for SA's right to hold matches to be in jeopardy.

 

[social]

Yeah who cares what you classify it as, it was a dire comment and is unacceptable on the field (or off it for that matter), regardless of whether it happens all time or not.

Potentially missing 10 days of cricket does seem abit harsh to me, although I have little sympathy for Gibbs atm. Still yet to see a proper apology as well, anyone has a link to one?

Any apology from the yobs who started it?

 

[pasag]

Any apology from the yobs who started it?

I don't see what that has to do with anything.

 

[Jono]

Can't believe people are trying to justify the comment on the grounds of its not racist. It may not have been intended to be racist, but the minute you insinuate a coloured minority with 'zoo animals' you're making a racist statement, and that's simply the case due to the disgusting history of various racial occurences in many countries. You can't just ignore it.

 

[TT Boy]

Gibbs appeals against ban...

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/current/story/276610.html

 

[TT Boy]

South Africa’s rotation policy comes into effect in PE this Friday, either Ntini or Pollock will miss out, captain Smith has said. And if Ntini does not feature in PE, then Shaun will not take part in the Cape Town test. There was some suggestion that both players would miss the PE test but with Andre Nel not really firing in Jo’Burg, they didn’t want to risk having Nel lead the line on his own.

 

[silentstriker]

Last Year, in Australia, a few members of the crowd abused South African Players, In Afrikaans and the outcry was that Australians were racist and should be banned from holding further games.

Obviously, the nationality of the crowd members doesn't matter, merely their location, so surely the call should now be for SA's right to hold matches to be in jeopardy.

Yup.

 

[silentstriker]

Any apology from the yobs who started it?

And I ask again, when Murali and SA team were touring Australia was it right for Murali to give the finger and would it have been right for SA to retaliate against Aussie fans?

 

[silentstriker]

International cricket is not for those of a weak constitution, nor should it be a forum for racism. Herschelle Gibbs may have uttered his words for "ears only" but such an excuse is not acceptable in a public arena. Chris Broad's decision to ban Gibbs is correct, whether or not the ban is sufficient is another matter. South Africa, too, can have no complaints, particularly since Graeme Smith managed to have Shoaib Akhtar banned for swearing at him during his team's last tour of Pakistan.

The fans who abused Paul Harris and struck Makhaya Ntini are a disgrace to Pakistani supporters everywhere. This sorry incident has no winners.

But it does expose a deeper problem with South African cricket. Smith's team fully deserved their victory, Pakistan were outplayed, but the manner of the victory left something to be desired. The snarling--and persistent--abuse that South Africa's players hurled at Pakistan's players went some way beyond sledging. It is amazing that the umpires tolerated it.

The behaviour of South Africa's players created a vile atmosphere in this first Test match, and whether or not it was for ears or eyes only it was evident for the world to see. These antics do not excuse the behaviour of Pakistan's fans but it surely contributed to their agitation.

All credit to Cricket South Africa for further investigating Herschelle Gibbs but what they really should be doing is considering the public conduct of their team. It is conduct that does little for the image of the Rainbow Nation.

-Karman Abassi

 

[howardj]

South Africa’s rotation policy comes into effect in PE this Friday, either Ntini or Pollock will miss out, captain Smith has said. And if Ntini does not feature in PE, then Shaun will not take part in the Cape Town test. .

They have a rotation policy for Test matches? I'd be furious if I was one of the rotated players.

 

[Jono]

I think its because of the ridiculous schedule heading into the WC for South Africa.

 

[TT Boy]

They have a rotation policy for Test matches? I'd be furious if I was one of the rotated players.

In World Cup year yes, South Africa’s main priority is success in the WC and they don’t have much time to prepare, so they are trying to minimalism the workload for key players. Though the policy I believe only applies to bowlers for the test series, batsman won’t be rested, only Kallis possibly in Cape Town.

The policy also extends to the ODI after the test series, where if South Africa are leading or have victory secured by the 4th or the 5th ODI then the nearly everyone will be rested (only players who are struggling with form will feature).

Personally I would field the strongest side for PE, win the game and then rest who you like in the dead rubber.

 

[Evermind]

The very fact that there's a rotation policy for Aus, NZ and now SA means that the team is not getting the best XI in its lineup. This means that the players ARE overworked, because there'd be no other reason for them to resort to this. Instead of having a rotation policy, ICC should have fewer matches so that the best XI of every country can be comfortably fielded every match without worrying about overwork.

Of course, this will mean less money for the ICC millionaires, and nobody wants the grossly obese 600 pounder to miss out on the tiniest morsel.

 

[silentstriker]

IMO, they should increase the FTP to 8 years, remove all ICC events except World Cup and that should only last the same amount of time as the champions trophy and not six weeks.

And also, get rid of the ridiculous 2 test match series. And also 7 ODI series is so completely ridiculous, its not even funny.

 

[gunner]

pguys we should keep this a pak vs sa thread

discuss gibbs ban in this thread
http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?p=1044486#post1044486

 

[social]

And I ask again, when Murali and SA team were touring Australia was it right for Murali to give the finger and would it have been right for SA to retaliate against Aussie fans?

Players are there to entertain - criticise their performance, by all means but personal abuse of the type displayed with Murali, the SA team in OZ AND here (why some people are attempting to overlook the role of the "fans" because theyre Pakistanis is beyond comprehension) should not be tolerated.

In circumstances such as above, I can understand Murali giving the guy the finger. Whilst it's a totally unoriginal and ineffective response, it's understandable nonetheless.

As for the South Africans, do you really think that they let the guys off scott-free?

Chances are that they gave them a spray before reporting them to whoever.

Again understandable.

Point is that players are not robots - if I had a bunch of ignorant racist pigs abusing me or my team mates and hitting players with flags etc, I'd have said a lot worse than Gibbs and I know many test players that would have done more

I was once playing with a test bowler who, having been abused by 2 guys on the hill for about 15 minutes, as he was walking back to his mark, suddenly broke into a trot, then a run, jumped the fence and chased the guys thru a park.