Muralitharan - Finger or Wrist Spinner?

[Richard]

Elbow

He can't use his elbow to spin the ball.

 

[Richard]

And of course, all spinners use both their wrist and their fingers to spin the ball.

You know perfectly well what the terms mean. It's much easier to say "wristspin" than "finger-and-wristspin", and that's the only reason the term isn't used.

There's a huge difference between fingerspin and finger-and-wristspin. If you want to say that Murali is a finger-and-wrist-spinner, you have to say that about everyone else previously classified "wristspinner".

 

[Richard]

The main difference between wrist spin and finger spin is the grip of the ball and your action. Murali pretty much has the same grip and action as leg spinner, but with his wrist turning in the other direction.

Well... not quite, Murali's wrist is unique because of the double-joint.

 

[Richard]

Like I said in the original post - I don't have an opinion on this matter. I want my mind made up for me by whoever responds. I know that there are posters on this board who are admant that what he bowls is fingerspin, and similarly people such as yourself who see it the other way, so I felt it could be interesting (even though I said it had been done to death, it's never had a thread of its own, so thought there was a chance of structured discussion here.

As an aside Duncan Fletcher's opinion is one of the following
a - he is a wristspinner
b- Panesar is better than Muralitharan

Given that the latter is somewhat unlikely, you'd imagine it'd be the former.

 

[Richard]

No, as obvious as it sounds, you are a finger spinner if you use your fingers.

Or maybe more accurately, given the pedanticism it's possible to incite, you're a fingerspinner if you use only your fingers.

 

[Richard]

Obviously Murali uses his wrist in a manner that is closer to the way leg-spin is usually bowled, but he still bowls off-spin.

Only to right-handers (and only when bowling his stock-ball).

When he bowls his stock-ball to left-handers he's a legspinner.

And when he bowls his wrong-'un to right-handers he's a legspinner.

 

[albo97056]

I always thought this was the case:
Off break and leg break - directions of turn
Off Spin and Leg spin- the direction a bowler ussually turns a ball -

ie murali bowls predominatly off breaks so therefore he is an off spinner. Simple as that.
Everyone bowls slightly differently, using different parts of their body different amounts, so the idea of wrist spin only and off spin only is a bit iffy. I mean as an offspinner you use your wrist a bit - you have to to release the ball - you have to **** your wrist and then once its being released you are not a robot and will therefore not bring your wrist through perfectly straight - imparting some spin on the ball from the wrist. And of course as richard pointed out, you have to use your fingers as a wrist spinner, so the term should really be PREDOMINANTLY finger spinner or vice versa

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

You know perfectly well what the terms mean. It's much easier to say "wristspin" than "finger-and-wristspin", and that's the only reason the term isn't used.

There's a huge difference between fingerspin and finger-and-wristspin. If you want to say that Murali is a finger-and-wrist-spinner, you have to say that about everyone else previously classified "wristspinner".

What on earth are you talking about? What I said was that every spin bowler, regardless of what they bowl, uses both their finger and wrist. A traditional off-break bowler still uses their wrist to impart spin on the ball, they just don't bowl "over the wrist". Then of course there is the natural variation in bowling actions between one bowler and another of a similar type. To distinguish between two different types of spin by "whether or not they use their wrist" is ridiculous. The distinctions are clearly based around the type of deliveries bowled, not which bodyparts are used.

 

[Richard]

No, they're not - given that "finger" and "wrist" are body-parts, and the genres are named after body parts.

Fingerspinners use virtually no wrist in their bowling (any more than they use their feet and knees by walking in), wristspinners use both to equal level.

 

[Richard]

I always thought this was the case:
Off break and leg break - directions of turn
Off Spin and Leg spin- the direction a bowler ussually turns a ball -

ie murali bowls predominatly off breaks so therefore he is an off spinner. Simple as that.

No, he doesn't, to the left-hander he predominantly bowls Leg-Breaks.

To classify someone as an "off-spinner" or a "leg-spinner" is really just stupid, because an Off-Break or Leg-Break is different depending on who's on-strike. It doesn't give you any useful information about the bowler.

"Fingerspinner" or "wristspinner" does, however - vitally, it tells you how much they are likely to spin the ball (of course, some wristspinners, like Kumble and Kaneria, spin the ball less than others like Mushtaq Ahmed, Warne and Murali) and therefore how effective they're likely to be on different pitches.

If one's going to be stupid he can call Murali (or anyone who spins his stock-ball in the direction he does) an "off-spinner", but please, don't be so utterly stupid as to call him a "fingerspinner" when he patently is nothing of the sort. Either use the proper terminology correctly or use the incorrect terminology.

 

[Jono]

Well, if you want to say that 'he uses his fingers too', then you have to classify Shane Warne as a finger spinner too. He uses his pinky too.

You realise its the ring finger that does most of the work out of the fingers right? Not the pinky.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Right on Jono. I can extract some pretty sharp turn woth my leg-spinners, and I can definetly say that my fingers give the ball the real rip, especially the ring (3rd) finger.

 

[silentstriker]

You realise its the ring finger that does most of the work out of the fingers right? Not the pinky.

The pinky is what is noticable, thats why I was using it as an example.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Only to right-handers (and only when bowling his stock-ball).

When he bowls his stock-ball to left-handers he's a legspinner.

And when he bowls his wrong-'un to right-handers he's a legspinner.

Shane Warne doesn't become an 'offspinner' when he bowls his wrong-un. You're classified by what you are...not what the batsman is.

 

[Son Of Coco]

What on earth are you talking about? What I said was that every spin bowler, regardless of what they bowl, uses both their finger and wrist. A traditional off-break bowler still uses their wrist to impart spin on the ball, they just don't bowl "over the wrist". Then of course there is the natural variation in bowling actions between one bowler and another of a similar type. To distinguish between two different types of spin by "whether or not they use their wrist" is ridiculous. The distinctions are clearly based around the type of deliveries bowled, not which bodyparts are used.

Exactly right, a 'wristspinner' traditionally is an 'over the wrist spinner' i.e someone who bowls legspin, be they left or right-handed.

 

[adharcric]

No, he doesn't, to the left-hander he predominantly bowls Leg-Breaks.

To classify someone as an "off-spinner" or a "leg-spinner" is really just stupid, because an Off-Break or Leg-Break is different depending on who's on-strike. It doesn't give you any useful information about the bowler.

"Fingerspinner" or "wristspinner" does, however - vitally, it tells you how much they are likely to spin the ball (of course, some wristspinners, like Kumble and Kaneria, spin the ball less than others like Mushtaq Ahmed, Warne and Murali) and therefore how effective they're likely to be on different pitches.

If one's going to be stupid he can call Murali (or anyone who spins his stock-ball in the direction he does) an "off-spinner", but please, don't be so utterly stupid as to call him a "fingerspinner" when he patently is nothing of the sort. Either use the proper terminology correctly or use the incorrect terminology.

Explain why the "off-spinner"/"leg-spinner" terminology is so disgraceful. Everyone who plays cricket is intelligent enough to know that if you turn it away from the right-hander, you'll naturally turn it into the left-hander (usually). The terminology is based on the convention of a right-handed batsman at the crease, isn't it? What's the big deal?

 

[social]

Leaving aside the question of whether he throws it in a game situation or not, he was able to bowl all his deliveries at the University of Western Australia while wearing a brace.

3-time olympic javelin champion Jan Zelezny also wore a brace on his throwing (bowling?) arm

 

[FRAZ]

He is kinda WRIST SPINNER But he does something with his fingers too . I'll stick with the finger option !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[silentstriker]

3-time olympic javelin champion Jan Zelezny also wore a brace on his throwing (bowling?) arm

I don't really understand this comment. Are you saying his elbow could bend even though they created a brace that forced it to not bend?

I am not commenting on whether he throws in a game situation. My comment was on the inability to bowl such deliveries without throwing. That statement is blatantly false as he has proven the ability to bowl them in a lab without throwing, regardless of whether he does that in a game or not.

 

[Laurrz]

Elbow

agreed