Muralitharan - Finger or Wrist Spinner?

[GIMH]

Hello everybody

I have seen this debated a few times lately on CC. It does interest me, and I will admit to having no outright opinion on the matter.

On the one hand there is the argument that if you bowl offbreaks, and you are right-handed, then you are a fingerspinner, simple as.

And on the other hand, there is the argument that Muralitharan blatantly imparts spin with his wrist.

I would be interested in hearing people's views on this one - is there honestly a correct answer?

 

[silentstriker]

It's quite obvious he uses his wrists. Why is this even a question?

 

[Josh]

Elbow

 

[silentstriker]

On the one hand there is the argument that if you bowl offbreaks, and you are right-handed, then you are a fingerspinner, simple as.

No, as obvious as it sounds, you are a finger spinner if you use your fingers.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Depends how you define the terms obviously, but my understanding has always been that they are merely a way of describing the style of bowling. Obviously Murali relies more on using his wrist than, say, Harbhajan, but they both spin it in the same direction. And of course, all spinners use both their wrist and their fingers to spin the ball.

 

[silentstriker]

Depends how you define the terms obviously, but my understanding has always been that they are merely a way of describing the style of bowling. Obviously Murali relies more on using his wrist than, say, Harbhajan, but they both spin it in the same direction. And of course, all spinners use both their wrist and their fingers to spin the ball.

Thats true, but for wrist spin, even though your pinky is used, the primary mode of imparting spin is the wrist.

 

[silentstriker]

It doesn't matter which way you turn it, even though he's the first person that I know of to turn it the other way with the wrist.

 

[chaminda_00]

His a wrist spinner, i think you'll find that there is a lot off spinners coming through that are wrist spinners. One reason is the increase amount of spin you get, as well as increase amount of bounce. But the main reason is that i think its pretty much impossible to bowl (well throw) a doosra without having a wrist spining action and grip. Also bowling off spin with a wrist spinner grip and action allows you to bowl with more variety.

Personally i did try to bowl off breaks with a wrist spinners action, but i stuffed up my shoulder and i couldn't get any consistency. But i did get a lot more turn and bounce and i could land a doosra, but i blantly threw it.

 

[GIMH]

It's quite obvious he uses his wrists. Why is this even a question?

Just because you think it's set in stone doesn't mean it is. There are many people who think otherwise, so I thought it would be a valid question. No need to be so obnoxious.

 

[silentstriker]

Just because you think it's set in stone doesn't mean it is. There are many people who think otherwise, so I thought it would be a valid question. No need to be so obnoxious.

Not trying to be obnoxious mate, just saying I thought it was fairly obvious by just watching him that his wrist is the primary tool.

 

[chaminda_00]

The main difference between wrist spin and finger spin is the grip of the ball and your action. Murali pretty much has the same grip and action as leg spinner, but with his wrist turning in the other direction.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Thats true, but for wrist spin, even though your pinky is used, the primary mode of imparting spin is the wrist.

The primary method of imparting spin is always the wrist, really. Try and bowl an off-break without moving your wrist. It doesn't work at all. And of course, you couldn't spin the ball without using your fingers either. I don't really see the relevance of the discussion.

Obviously Murali uses his wrist in a manner that is closer to the way leg-spin is usually bowled, but he still bowls off-spin.

One could probably invent an entirely new categorisation for it, and if anyone else manages to do it without throwing the ball I imagine there will be one. Over the wrist off-spin or something. But realistically I think it's virtually impossible to bowl like that without throwing.

 

[silentstriker]

The primary method of imparting spin is always the wrist, really. Try and bowl an off-break without moving your wrist. It doesn't work at all. And of course, you couldn't spin the ball without using your fingers either. I don't really see the relevance of the discussion.

Obviously Murali uses his wrist in a manner that is closer to the way leg-spin is usually bowled, but he still bowls off-spin.

One could probably invent an entirely new categorisation for it, and if anyone else manages to do it without throwing the ball I imagine there will be one. Over the wrist off-spin or something. But realistically I think it's virtually impossible to bowl like that without throwing.

Leaving aside the question of whether he throws it in a game situation or not, he was able to bowl all his deliveries at the University of Western Australia while wearing a brace.

 

[GIMH]

Not trying to be obnoxious mate, just saying I thought it was fairly obvious by just watching him that his wrist is the primary tool.

Alright, no worries.

Question though - does his wrist being the primary tool necessairly make it wristspin? Fuller might be onto something with regards to re-categorising the type of spin Murali bowls.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Leaving aside the question of whether he throws it in a game situation or not, he was able to bowl all his deliveries at the University of Western Australia while wearing a brace.

I'm not referring to Murali. He obviously has unique physical traits. I'm referring to other bowlers who attempt to emulate him.

 

[silentstriker]

Alright, no worries.

Question though - does his wrist being the primary tool necessairly make it wristspin? Fuller might be onto something with regards to re-categorising the type of spin Murali bowls.

Well, if you want to say that 'he uses his fingers too', then you have to classify Shane Warne as a finger spinner too. He uses his pinky too.

Murali has the same wrist and finger action as Warne, except his wrist turns the other way. Surely the direction of the wrist turning, with all other factors being equal, does not make it finger spin?

 

[chaminda_00]

Off spinners can bowl with a similar action to Murali without throwing it IMO. Its just they will never get the same amount of turn, which is a result of his physical traits.

 

[GIMH]

Well, if you want to say that 'he uses his fingers too', then you have to classify Shane Warne as a finger spinner too. He uses his pinky too.

Murali has the same wrist and finger action as Warne, except his wrist turns the other way. Surely the direction of the wrist turning, with all other factors being equal, does not make it finger spin?

Like I said in the original post - I don't have an opinion on this matter. I want my mind made up for me by whoever responds. I know that there are posters on this board who are admant that what he bowls is fingerspin, and similarly people such as yourself who see it the other way, so I felt it could be interesting (even though I said it had been done to death, it's never had a thread of its own, so thought there was a chance of structured discussion here.

As an aside Duncan Fletcher's opinion is one of the following
a - he is a wristspinner
b- Panesar is better than Muralitharan

 

[silentstriker]

Duncan Fletcher may be wrong, but he isn't stupid.

Plus, I'd still have Harbhajan over Panesar even though Harbhajan isn't fit to kiss Kumble's shoes in the Indian team.

 

[Richard]

On the one hand there is the argument that if you bowl offbreaks, and you are right-handed, then you are a fingerspinner, simple as.

That's an argument that simply baffles logic.

"Offspin" and "Legspin" simply refer to the direction the ball spins in (and changes depending on whether left- or right-hander is on-strike).

"Fingerspin" and "wristspin" refer to something totally different - the technique used to spin the ball, and vitally the amount of spin possible to impart. The human wrist can spin the ball more than the fingers alone can.

It's like the "inswing" \ "outswing" and "conventional" and "reverse" swing. The first two refer to the direction (which changes depending on who's on-strike), the latter two to the technique used to achieve the swing.