***Official*** India in South Africa

[silentstriker]

So Turd, how about Sehwag actually making runs in the second innings?

 

[Pratters]

It was the umpire's fault that they didn't inform India of the situation with Tendulkar early enough. I have a feeling India had already settled it with the third umpire before they sent Ganguly out. Doubt they would risk something like that. SA probably knew about the umpires allowing it too, hence them not appealing. Jackman was a jackass nevertheless.

No, you have got it wrong mate. India should have known the rules and there was enough time between the close of play yesterday and start of play today to figure out at what time Tendulkar could go out to the middle to bat. The team management and particularly Tendulkar were very much at fault here.

 

[Pratters]

That is disgraceful umpiring.

The players didn't appeal. So no fault of the umpires.

 

[silentstriker]

Do you guys think Sehwag should still open for India again?

He shouldn't be in the team for a long time, until he proves himself again in domestic circuit and ideally like Zaheer did in England.

 

[Pratters]

like Zaheer did in England.

Zaheer didn't really prove himself in England. He had an ordinary FC season playing in the second division AFAIK and the media just pepped him up because he took a lot of wickets (forgetting the average and division).

 

[adharcric]

That is disgraceful umpiring. Another reason why we need a guy like Hair still umpiring today. He would've given that out because he isn't gutless. That was out. The indians shouldn't be excused for their ignorance. Every cricketer knows if you spend a certain amount of time off the field you have to make up for that time before you can bat or bowl again. That was without a doubt timed out. Ganguly should be back in the pavillion and the South Africans should be celebrating.

If I was a Saffer I'd be livid with that call. The rule clearly states if you have not set foot on the pitch 3 minutes after the last batsman was out then he is timed out. Doesn't say anything about making excuses for Indian ignorance. Horrible umpiring. They were worried of being labelled racist etc by angry Indians.

How are you supposed to know exactly how long you're not allowed back on the field? Surely no one times themselves like an idiot.
The umpires are responsible for informing you and they did it too late. Blame the umpires but don't blame Tendulkar. Pathetic.

 

[Jono]

That is disgraceful umpiring. Another reason why we need a guy like Hair still umpiring today. He would've given that out because he isn't gutless. That was out. The indians shouldn't be excused for their ignorance. Every cricketer knows if you spend a certain amount of time off the field you have to make up for that time before you can bat or bowl again. That was without a doubt timed out. Ganguly should be back in the pavillion and the South Africans should be celebrating.

If I was a Saffer I'd be livid with that call. The rule clearly states if you have not set foot on the pitch 3 minutes after the last batsman was out then he is timed out. Doesn't say anything about making excuses for Indian ignorance. Horrible umpiring. They were worried of being labelled racist etc by angry Indians.

Oh get over yourself.

SA were never going to appeal, you don't want to win a test match that way.

 

[silentstriker]

That is disgraceful umpiring. Another reason why we need a guy like Hair still umpiring today. He would've given that out because he isn't gutless. That was out. The indians shouldn't be excused for their ignorance. Every cricketer knows if you spend a certain amount of time off the field you have to make up for that time before you can bat or bowl again. That was without a doubt timed out. Ganguly should be back in the pavillion and the South Africans should be celebrating.

If I was a Saffer I'd be livid with that call. The rule clearly states if you have not set foot on the pitch 3 minutes after the last batsman was out then he is timed out. Doesn't say anything about making excuses for Indian ignorance. Horrible umpiring. They were worried of being labelled racist etc by angry Indians.

You have to appeal before being the umpire can give you out.

 

[sideshowtim]

The players didn't appeal. So no fault of the umpires.

Shouldn't have to appeal. The umpires would've been aware of what exactly was going on. Do you have to appeal for a bowled? No. This is the same. It was very clear that he was out, over 3 minutes had elapsed. Very poor umpiring.

 

[sideshowtim]

Oh get over yourself.

SA were never going to appeal, you don't want to win a test match that way.

Timed out is a legitimate wicket so I don't know what you are talking about. The Indians have no problem appealing for things like handling the ball.

If you aren't going to give them out why not just dump the entire rule?

 

[Jono]

Timed out is a legitimate wicket so I don't know what you are talking about. The Indians have no problem appealing for things like handling the ball.

If you aren't going to give them out why not just dump the entire rule?

How was Sachin supposed to know that he had 7 more mins before he could go out? They only told him after the 1st bloody wicket fell. He wasn't given out because the umpires knew they were at fault.

Anyone you can go on with your Darell Hair loving, I'm here to watch a cricket match.

And there's such a big difference between timed out and handling the ball its ridiculous. Most people walk when they handled the ball anyway. And did you see how Pollock was joking around? They were never going to appeal unless it became ridiculous, like 10 mins or so.

 

[adharcric]

Zaheer didn't really prove himself in England. He had an ordinary FC season playing in the second division AFAIK and the media just pepped him up because he took a lot of wickets (forgetting the average and division).

He was the leading wicket-taker in that division.

 

[sideshowtim]

How are you supposed to know exactly how long you're not allowed back on the field? Surely no one times themselves like an idiot.
The umpires are responsible for informing you and they did it too late. Blame the umpires but don't blame Tendulkar. Pathetic.

It's poor team management. Teams always time the length their players are off the ground so that they aren't off longer than the 7 minutes before it starts actually timing them. It is not Tendulkars fault, but rather the Indian team managements fault for stuffing that one up.

 

[silentstriker]

I missed the pitch report this morning, what did it look like?

 

[Pratters]

Shouldn't have to appeal. The umpires would've been aware of what exactly was going on. Do you have to appeal for a bowled? No. This is the same. It was very clear that he was out, over 3 minutes had elapsed. Very poor umpiring.

Gavaskar and the ESPN-Star commentary team specifically mentioned the players had to appeal and no South African players madean iota of an issue regarding the time out and so till I am corrected via exact quotes fromthe rule book, I will assume that is the correct rule.

 

[adharcric]

No, you have got it wrong mate. India should have known the rules and there was enough time between the close of play yesterday and start of play today to figure out at what time Tendulkar could go out to the middle to bat. The team management and particularly Tendulkar were very much at fault here.

There was enough time to figure out the exact time, but the umpires are responsible for informing India of that time.
They did so far too late so it's completely their fault. Quite simple, really.

 

[sideshowtim]

How was Sachin supposed to know that he had 7 more mins before he could go out? They only told him after the 1st bloody wicket fell. He wasn't given out because the umpires knew they were at fault.

Anyone you can go on with your Darell Hair loving, I'm here to watch a cricket match.

And there's such a big difference between timed out and handling the ball its ridiculous. Most people walk when they handled the ball anyway. And did you see how Pollock was joking around? They were never going to appeal unless it became ridiculous, like 10 mins or so.

Sachin wasn't supposed to. The team management should've however and informed him so.

There is NO difference between handled the ball and timed out. There is NO difference between bowled and timed out. All are legitimate wickets. All are worth 1 wicket if effected. Just because it doesn't happen regularly doesn't mean you can say "oh, thats okay, just forget about it".

Anyway...I can't remember anyone walking after handling the ball in test cricket...

And the rule clearly states, 3 minutes, not 10. He was out.

 

[Pratters]

There was enough time to figure out the exact time, but the umpires are responsible for informing India of that time.
They did so far too late so it's completely their fault. Quite simple, really.

Tendulkar was out of the fieldfor x amount of time yesterday. He couldn't go into bat till y minutes. Play started at minute z. So seeing the rule books, it shouldn't be very difficult to figure out after what time he could go out to bat.

 

[adharcric]

Tendulkar was out of the fieldfor x amount of time yesterday. He couldn't go into bat till y minutes. Play started at minute z. So seeing the rule books, it shouldn't be very difficult to figure out after what time he could go out to bat.

I'm not disputing that. All I'm saying is that the umpire is supposed to figure that and not the team. The player checks in and checks out with the umpire and the umpire is the one who marks the time and figures out the elapsed time and how long the player needs to wait. The umpires were the ones who blew it.

 

[Slow Love™]

It was not the umpire's fault that the South Africans did not appeal. That said, it was really stupid of

a) The Indians to send in Ganguly risking him being timed out instead of a tail ender.
b) The South Africans not appealing to get the wicket.

The way it was described, it appeared that the problem was that the umpires didn't notify India that Tendulkar couldn't come out at that time (due to time he spent off the field) until the innings had already begun. The mass confusion was probably because the second wicket fell so quickly.

From what's been said it was literally a matter of minutes - Tendulkar could come out at 10.48, but the second wicket fell at 10.45. It's possible that the umpires just assumed that it wouldn't be an issue as it's highly unusual for two wickets to fall in the first few minutes.

I get the sense that the umpires told the South Africans that they wouldn't give the incoming batsman out timed-out, as the error had been theirs, but I'm not certain of that. I guess it comes down to whose responsibility it is to track how long before a player can come back out onto the field after spending some time off it. Is that the umpire's sole responsibility or are the teams expected to know?

I tend to agree with adharcric that, rightly or wrongly, it must have been discussed off field with the third or fourth umpire (or the ref), because it did seem like Ganguly offered no explanation. It will be very interesting to hear South Africa's side of all this. If they simply chose not to appeal, that resolves the issue. But if the umpires advised them not to, it's all a bit of a screwup on their (the umpires) part.