• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

*Official* England Tour of West Indies 2019

vcs

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Flintoff did win the Man of the Series while leading his team to a win against one of the greatest teams of all time TBF.

Not necessarily saying Holder can't emulate and possibly surpass him, but we can't exactly compare their exploits so far on a purely statistical basis.
 

Woodster

International Captain
This. At the moment his career record is better in every aspect. I think Freddie was vastly overrated tbh. Eye-catching yes but he didn't score many runs or take many wickets.

Jase will end up a hell of a lot better imho. Either way, Freddie was idiotic for making those comments.
Flintoff the bowler was quite a force, he maybe didn’t take the five-wicket hauls as frequently as you may expect for someone of his ability, perhaps due to the more back of a length he had, where as Holder is that bit fuller. You just have to listen the batsman talk about Freddie from that era when he was at his peak, a horrible bowler to face.

His batting does have the feeling of it could and should have been better. The odd glittering and domination innings was punctuated far too frequently by bouts of inconsistency.
 

Stefan9

International Debutant
Results are what matters not what others thought of him. He averaged 33 with the ball and 32 with the bat. Hardly the figures of a super star. His entire rep is virtually build on one phenomenal series.
 

greg

International Debutant
They may make panic stricken changes by dropping all the spinners and bringing in Broad and Woakes. Would be funny if the next pitch takes turn.
Recent precedent would suggest that they will pick the same side. To make some sort of point.
 

greg

International Debutant
Results are what matters not what others thought of him. He averaged 33 with the ball and 32 with the bat. Hardly the figures of a super star. His entire rep is virtually build on one phenomenal series.
It was a bit more than that. He was seriously consistently good (with the stats behind it) for a period of 3-4 years (longer if you include 1 day cricket). Would have been selected for both of his disciplines on their own. But beyond that his career was "mixed" to put it mildly/generously. And the further problem was that the England team selections for a long period were absolutely dependent on him performing (especially with the bat as he was generally used to lengthen the bowling attack, rather than the batting)
 

Woodster

International Captain
Results are what matters not what others thought of him. He averaged 33 with the ball and 32 with the bat. Hardly the figures of a super star. His entire rep is virtually build on one phenomenal series.
You can’t make a full judgement based on the overall stats at all, imo. His stats aren’t mightily impressive but stats don’t tell you the moments when he performed, they don’t tell you how he made things happen when England most needed it, they don’t tell you how other bowlers profited from his bowling at the other end, etc.
 

Slifer

International Captain
I'm genuinely curious to know what comments boycott and flintoff made that were so diabolical.
 

Beamer

International Vice-Captain
I'm genuinely curious to know what comments boycott and flintoff made that were so diabolical.
Boycott said Windies team is full of very average cricketers and Flintoff said the world has gone mad and if Holder gets 200 clearly England's top 6 should chase 600.
 

Flem274*

123/5
jason holder is a superb cricketer but i'd like to see him consistently bat at #6 (or even higher, like cairns and flintoff sometimes had to) before i'll name him better. cairns in particular is also clearly ahead on bowling, but given he was often given the new ball as a 135-140kph swing bowler that's no shame on holder's role in his team.

would love holder to do it tbh. i'm scarred by richard and tec always bleating about 2005 ashes and mr x, despite his extended peak of circa 40 with the bat and 26 with the ball, can go do one for how he's taken advantage of former teammates and treated the game.
 
Last edited:

Kirkut

International Regular
You folks need to be patient with Root, he's a human after all and will go through a poor form, let him continue with captaincy.
 

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
He’s been looking better and better of late imo.

I agree captaincy seemed to have made a negative impact earlier on. Not sure if reversing that decision will help him score runs though.
 

Top