*Official* England Tour of West Indies 2019

[vcs]

These runs by Holder and Dowrich were very valuable. Not just for putting the game completely out of England's reach, but also tiring out their bowlers for the next match (though England shielded Jimmy and made Stokes do most of the donkey work).

Recent example : India didn't even do a good job of this in Melbourne in the 2nd innings in the recent series, but still benefited by wearing out Australia's attack at Sydney. The grind of the first two days at Melbourne caught up with them eventually.

 

[Starfighter]

People are getting a little too obsessed with the concept of downhill skiing.

Perhaps we should be discussing uphill gardening instead.

 

[Second Spitter]

Perhaps we should be discussing uphill gardening instead.

 

[trundler]

Chase got some pretty lucky wickets.

Wonder where his mum was sitting.

 

[mr_mister]

Even after that slaughter England are massive favourites for next test. Lol

 

[vcs]

They may make panic stricken changes by dropping all the spinners and bringing in Broad and Woakes. Would be funny if the next pitch takes turn.

 

[Borges]

They have Jack Leach in the squad; bring him and Broad into the playing eleven, surely?

 

[trundler]

Should they stick with Curran and Moeen? Rashid has to go surely.

 

[Borges]

I would go for Broad and Leach in for Rashid and Moeen.
Curran, with youth on his side, deserves to be persisted with; just as they had persisted with a young Broad long ago.

 

[NUFAN]

West Indies played against Bangladesh in Antigua (2nd Test venue) in July 2018 and all 20 wickets taken by the Windies were from pace bowlers. Bangladesh made just 43 in their first innings. Even Bangladesh's opening bowler Abu Jayed had the best figures for Bangladesh, so you'd think a pace bowler (Broad) will come in for England definitely.

7 Foakes 8 Moeen 9 Curran 10 Broad 11 Anderson looks so much better.

Personally I would rather Root ahead of Bairstow and Buttler ahead of Stokes but I doubt either will happen.

 

[Woodster]

People are getting a little too obsessed with the concept of downhill skiing. If he got 0 and England only had to chase 350, yeah Windies are still big favourites. But there would certainly be 3 possible outcomes. Removing the chance of a windies loss makes them valuable runs. Especially considering he got them quick enough to allow his side over 6 sessions to bowl England out.

Lastly, itl be hard for a number 8 to ever get valuable runs if we only allow for team rescuing innings to count. Annoys me

His runs ensured WI couldn’t lose the game, I’m taking nothing away from the fact he got a double ton and batted exceptionally well. But it was a relatively free hit for him, it wasn’t a massively pressurised situation, a brief cameo would have seen England need over 400. These are facts, you can place as much importance on the knock in terms of tiring out the attack, etc, as you wish, just think the game was pretty much done when he walked out there.

 

[Woodster]

Lots of talk about the arrogance of UK media. Boycott and Flintoff particularly. I'm used to it tbh, English media is pretty dreadful and not a reflection of Brits in general.

Boycott I expect negativity from but Flintoff's tweet was particularly stupid. Jason is clearly a better all-rounder than Freddie was anyway and has only one less century having played 40 less matches.

Yes Boycott continues to seek attention with bold comments that inevitably come back and bite him on his arse. Not sure I agree about Holder clearly being a better all-rounder than Freddie for numerous reasons, but he’s certainly proving valuable for you guys.

 

[mr_mister]

I'd wager a fair bit of money hel be considered clearly better then Freddie in 5 years. But right now his resume is too small. Awesome set of averages though. Better than Stokes record

 

[TT Boy]

I knew someone would do this. I almost put in the caveat that Stokes is obviously in no class anywhere near to Kallis in the original post, but I kind of assumed that it was obvious.

The point wasn't about quality of the player, it was about workload of the player who bowls pace and bats in the top order.

One thing Stokes is channeling at the moment is Kallis’s career S/R. Ben’s S/R last 22 innings is 45, same as Jacques, though the more cautious approach hasn’t helped Ben with the batting average – that’s at 25 since Jan, 2018.

 

[Cow]

Stokes has all the ability but is guilty of brain fades.

Can stand and bang too.

 

[Furball]

An England team with the talent it has really shouldn't be putting in the kind of half-arsed performance we saw here.

What talent would this be?

 

[S.Kennedy]

I once heard Flintoff describe Sobers as ''overrated''. In fairness he apoligised later when someone produced Sobers' stats, but I wouldn't say Fred knows much about the sport really.

 

[Beamer]

I'd wager a fair bit of money hel be considered clearly better then Freddie in 5 years. But right now his resume is too small. Awesome set of averages though. Better than Stokes record

This. At the moment his career record is better in every aspect. I think Freddie was vastly overrated tbh. Eye-catching yes but he didn't score many runs or take many wickets.

Jase will end up a hell of a lot better imho. Either way, Freddie was idiotic for making those comments.

 

[andmark]

This. At the moment his career record is better in every aspect. I think Freddie was vastly overrated tbh. Eye-catching yes but he didn't score many runs or take many wickets.

Jase will end up a hell of a lot better imho. Either way, Freddie was idiotic for making those comments.

Flintoff's career seems to have been one of extreme heights and extreme lows. 2005 Ashes, 2006/07 Ashes, Lords 2009, pedalo incident (which was a literal low). I expect Holder will have a better, more consistent career, but I can't see him matching some of Flintoff's highs. This all said, I'm not a fan of comparing ex-players' careers to the careers of current players they've criticised. If it was a fair way of doing things, the only member this forum would ever have had would've been Martin Crowe.

 

[Tom Flint]

Does holders year just been not match flintoffs highs