Ricky Ponting vs Kumar Sangakkara

[Gob]

Pointing.
He's in an in-between tier below Lara, Sachin but above Kallis, Sanga, and David below them I have Younis.

I'd wait until he proves him self in longer formats. Best Singaporean cricketer for sure

 

[Gob]

Voted for Sanga, for very obvious reasons. If you only include a comparable period (so excluding the 90s for Ponting, where his average was lower anyway), Sanga's average is still over 5 points higher than Ponting. Add to that the fact that for some ****ing reason ( I wonder why, maybe a certain theory of mine is proving true ), Ponting is obliterating in this poll and I vote for those behind in such circumstances and this one becomes a no-brainier for mine.

This is made more impressive by the fact that for over a third of his Test career Sanga was also keeping, which seems to have a significant impact on batting production for the vast majority of keeper-batsmen, so for me Sanga has to be the most consistently underrated batsmen among what I'd call the ATG second tier.

( Also guys, lets get Gilly involved in this player comparison thread which does not include him. I'm sure we'll go over a lot of new ground, and people will have an open minded discussion based on merits of arguments, as opposed to being dug in and stubbornly supporting whichever preconceived notion they bring into the discussion. )

Ponting was pretty decent in the 90s

 

[shortpitched713]

Its close based on record. However, having watched them both, I know Ponting is better.

Ponting in the mid-2000s was the most dominant batsman I can remember.

Watched them both too, although a bit less of Ponting in the 90s. Sanga from about middle of 2006 to 2015 retirement was one of the most dominant batsmen I can remember. For both Sanga and Steve Smith, I've remembered thinking "surely these dumb ***** have to stop scoring at this clip", but in both cases they really didn't. God batsmanship levels confirmed for both for mine. Only reason I place Smith above Sanga is that Sanga had his initial period of less batting production as a wicketkeeper. Thankfully he gave that up though, although there is literally no way to know if Sanga could have kept improving to some extent with the bat and staked a claim to GOAT WK-batsman if he kept the gloves on. That's something we'll just never know.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd wait until he proves him self in longer formats. Best Singaporean cricketer for sure

@Daemon

 

[shortpitched713]

Ponting was pretty decent in the 90s

In a straight average comparison though, adding in the 90s only brings Ponting' down, so I excluded it to be fair to him. BTW, ends up being over 58 for Sanga, and slightly over 53 for Ponting when you take out their batting in the 20th century, for whoever is counting.

 

[subshakerz]

Voted for Sanga, for very obvious reasons. If you only include a comparable period (so excluding the 90s for Ponting, where his average was lower anyway), Sanga's average is still over 5 points higher than Ponting. Add to that the fact that for some ****ing reason ( I wonder why, maybe a certain theory of mine is proving true ), Ponting is obliterating in this poll and I vote for those behind in such circumstances and this one becomes a no-brainier for mine.

Sanga played minnows more than Ponting, SL in the 2000s was probably the most batting-friendly place on the planet, and post-2000 Ponting averages a couple of points more. This accounts for the average difference IMO.

This is made more impressive by the fact that for over a third of his Test career Sanga was also keeping, which seems to have a significant impact on batting production for the vast majority of keeper-batsmen, so for me Sanga has to be the most consistently underrated batsmen among what I'd call the ATG second tier.

We don't know how it affected his batting. For all we know, it may have had zero impact and this was just the formative period of his career. He shouldnt get special points for this.

 

[subshakerz]

Ponting was pretty decent in the 90s

Ponting's peak began in 99 I think.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Keeping definitely affects batting. A lot. Keeping in Test cricket is the most physically and mentally gruelling job there is in cricket. Add that in to the time and effort you need to put into maintaining your skills at the expense of just focusing on batting.

 

[subshakerz]

Keeping definitely affects batting. A lot. Keeping in Test cricket is the most physically and mentally gruelling job there is in cricket. Add that in to the time and effort you need to put into maintaining your skills at the expense of just focusing on batting.

It didn't affect ABD though.

 

[shortpitched713]

We don't know how it affected his batting. For all we know, it may have had zero impact and this was just the formative period of his career. He shouldnt get special points for this.

By looking at the history of Test cricket, we can find the players who played at different times as specialist bats and keepers and make the comparison between their wicket keeping and non wicketkeeping records. Turns out it usually helps their batting records to give up the gloves. Another example like Sanga is Clyde Walcott, with the two having nearly the exact same split in batting average (40s with gloves, over 60 without) by wicket-keeping status.

I agree with you, we'll never truly know, as it's not like we can run a controlled experiment, in which we simulate the universe in which Sanga never gave up the gloves. However you can surely concede that not giving up the gloves would have been much more likely to hurt his career batting average than help it, no?

 

[TheJediBrah]

It didn't affect ABD though.

Statistical anomaly, also when he took keeping in Tests seriously he was already an established ATG (or ATvG batsman), which is a bit of different dynamic

 

[subshakerz]

By looking at the history of Test cricket, we can find the players who played at different times as specialist bats and keepers and make the comparison between their wicket keeping and non wicketkeeping records. Turns out it usually helps their batting records to give up the gloves. Another example like Sanga is Clyde Walcott, with the two having nearly the exact same split in batting average (40s with gloves, over 60 without) by wicket-keeping status.

I agree with you, we'll never truly know, as it's not like we can run a controlled experiment, in which we simulate the universe in which Sanga never gave up the gloves. However you can surely concede that not giving up the gloves would have been much more likely to hurt his career batting average than help it, no?

Best example is Alec Stewart who may have suffered. But that was his and the team's choice. I don't mind people rating him better than his stats but in Sanga's case the only proviso I have is that most batsman have an early career phase in which they are not as productive, so it may have been affected by keeping but not to the extent as we tend to think so.

 

[subshakerz]

Statistical anomaly, also when he took keeping in Tests seriously he was already an established ATG (or ATvG batsman), which is a bit of different dynamic

Fair enough. ABD actually averaged more as keeper amazingly.

 

[Coronis]

SL in the 2000s was probably the most batting-friendly place on the planet

Really puts Murali’s record there in perspective doesn’t it?

 

[Migara]

Really puts Murali’s record there in perspective doesn’t it?

When Sanga is discussed >> SL tracks in 2000s were uber flat
When Murali is discussed >> SL tacks in 2000s were dust bowls turning square

 

[Gob]

Ponting's peak began in 99 I think.

Peak started in 2001 ashes but Ponting still did pretty well in the 90s. His overall record vs SA, WI and Pakistan in that decade was 47 (better than Sachin against those teams) and scored hundreds against Donald, Pollock, Ambrose, Walsh and Wasim (something Lara never did). Obviously he played a lot less than those two and made those runs batting mostly at six but still very decent. Throw in that series in SL 99 and its pretty good overall

 

[honestbharani]

I'd wait until he proves him self in longer formats. Best Singaporean cricketer for sure

Literally beat Goliath. What more do you want?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Really puts Murali’s record there in perspective doesn’t it?

When Sanga is discussed >> SL tracks in 2000s were uber flat
When Murali is discussed >> SL tacks in 2000s were dust bowls turning square

They are generally dry and are hence called flat for pacers, and good for Murali once the pitch wears down.

That isn't an accurate summation either because some SL stadiums did aid pace. But you're both being a little disingenuous.

 

[ankitj]

Lot of posters put Sangakkara above Ponting in this thread: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/rank-the-10-000-club.83334/

 

[BazBall21]

Lot of posters put Sangakkara above Ponting in this thread: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/rank-the-10-000-club.83334/

Ponting is slightly better imo but I’m surprised how easily he’s romping home here