Molehill
International Captain
I mean they had just won the WTC. The '13 and '15 teams wouldn't have been close to achieving that. I'd argue they're probably better than '19 too given they couldn't beat a rank average England team.
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England's 2005 Ashes side vs England 2023 'Bazball' Ashes side.
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Spark
Global Moderator
It's actually hard to say re: 2019 tbh. It's basically the same bowlers in 2019 but those bowlers were clearly in better form (Starc aside) and all fit (for Lyon), whilst the batting was much worse in 2019 with one enormous, glaring exception which is so big that it almost balances out everything else.
This is a much better side than 2015, which was over the hill, and 2013 which was kind of average. 2009 was two thoroughly mediocre sides trying to not to step on too many rakes.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Eh, it was actually not too far off the England side that went to number one in the world. It was a side very much on the up whereas Oz were probably still on the way down
Spark
Global Moderator
Right but it was still a very nascent side in that respect whose young players were still several years from reaching their peak and there were quite a few old hangers on who would be retiring after the series. The two actual teams rolled out were very average, albeit with opposite trajectories
Harmison as well.
We also picked Bopara, who would've made even the 1948 Invincibles mediocre.
trundler
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Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Probably because he's Welsh
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Nobody’s perfect
A definite transition series for both sides. It established Broad, Swann, Prior in the side alongside Trott making his debut, while the end of Flintoff, Harmison and Monty as first choice spinner.
For Australia it was the end for Clark who'd basically filled in for McGrath and the beginning of the end for Ponting and Katich. It began the wilderness years of Aussie spin bowling and for Johnson. It was also an almost unrecognisable bowling attacks for English fans, but both Hilf and Siddle impressed.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Thanks for this breaking news Jeff
flibbertyjibber
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2005 and it wouldn't be close. Better attack and a more solid batting line up bar Bell.
As for 09, an awful Aussie side and two of the the most hyped players in history were found our totally that summer and never really recovered, Bopara and Hughes. That Aussie attack though was ordinary.
As for 09, an awful Aussie side and two of the the most hyped players in history were found our totally that summer and never really recovered, Bopara and Hughes. That Aussie attack though was ordinary.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Who said?
Seems like some folk are consoling themselves by imagining jubilant English celebrations that don't actually exist.
Molehill
International Captain
Can you imagine the celebrations when Australia do actually win an Ashes Series in England???
I mean we probably do need to imagine it as not sure we'll be around to see it....
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
By the time it happens, whenever it is, it will be the longest ever run of either side failing to win away (so some podcast or another reliably informed me anyway)
Winning is always very important. You can't tell me that the likes of Stokes, Broad, Jimmy, Root etc will be happy that we didn't win the series.
But you do have to put this series in to context. We were against the best test team in the world and matched them blow for blow.
And this Engkand team is far from being the finished article. McCullum and Stokes have only been in charge for 15 months and the side is still very much developing and learning.
The Aussies meanwhile are a fully formed side, they've been together a long time and are pretty much at their peak.
We're not celebrating the drawn series because winning doesn't matter, its because we've come a long way in a short time and we think there's alot more to come.
flibbertyjibber
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By the time it happens they won't be able to remember the last time they won here. The likes of Burgey will be senile dribbling down his chin (much like now) in his retirement home.