England thread

[Adders]

Yeah, like Archer was ever any chance of getting on the park in the first place.

He's done. Finished. Kaput.

Same was being said of Cummins for nigh on 7 years mate...and y'know.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Same was being said of Cummins for nigh on 7 years mate...and y'know.

Have heard people compare him to Cummins in that respect, but it really isn't the same at all. Pat wasn't even 24 yet when he made his return to Test cricket in India, Archer was already that age before he made his international dayboo.

 

[mackembhoy]

Yeah, like Archer was ever any chance of getting on the park in the first place.

He's done. Finished. Kaput.

He was Englands second highest wicket taker in ODI cricket this year at the beginning of the World Cup. He averaged 15 and took a 6fer in March.

I'd written him off prior to his games this year.

He'll be back, his variety in white ball is part of his strength. He's not consistently quick anyway, so if he's loses some pace it won't hold him back.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, like Archer was ever any chance of getting on the park in the first place.

He's done. Finished. Kaput.

Sadly, he is a victim of Joe Root's racist captaincy.

 

[quincywagstaff]

FFs we've had a bad tournament, but were holders of 2 World Cups, seems an odd time to talk about systematic failures and how it's all gone wrong since KP.

Just a great team, that has come to it's end, and with plenty of youngsters to make a clean break, probably better we can make a clean break, rather than if we'd had a middling tournament.

I think the issue is how far England have fallen off as a ODI lineup. For the talent they have to even be thrashed by a mediocre Sri Lankan side shouldn't be acceptable.

Heard some comms say that England's side were a bit old and hadn't been refreshed enough since 2019. But couldn't Australia have made the same excuse? They're a relatively old team that not only has much of the same team from 2019 but also a decent chunk of the 2015 winning squad as well.

After the first two matches, would've been easy for Australia to mentally give it up, especially after the intense amount of overseas Test cricket much of their side has played this year. But they've used their experience as an asset and managed to turn their tournament around.

Seems the opposite occurred with England after their poor start; almost as if they thought "well, we won it in 2019 so it's not that big a deal if we flop here."

Just seems to be a cultural/mental issue as much as anything.

 

[Chin Music]

I think the issue is how far England have fallen off as a ODI lineup. For the talent they have to even be thrashed by a mediocre Sri Lankan side shouldn't be acceptable.

Heard some comms say that England's side were a bit old and hadn't been refreshed enough since 2019. But couldn't Australia have made the same excuse? They're a relatively old team that not only has much of the same team from 2019 but also a decent chunk of the 2015 winning squad as well.

After the first two matches, would've been easy for Australia to mentally give it up, especially after the intense amount of overseas Test cricket much of their side has played this year. But they've used their experience as an asset and managed to turn their tournament around.

Seems the opposite occurred with England after their poor start; almost as if they thought "well, we won it in 2019 so it's not that big a deal if we flop here."

Just seems to be a cultural/mental issue as much as anything.

I think I had pointed out earlier here that I didn’t buy the reason/ excuse that the team was too old because several other sides, including Australia and India, had players in the same age bracket. There did seem to be a lack of resilience from some of the main players that I find hard to stomach. That starts considerably with Buttler, Root and Bairstow. They ought to take a long look at themselves.

 

[Adders]

I think the issue is how far England have fallen off as a ODI lineup. For the talent they have to even be thrashed by a mediocre Sri Lankan side shouldn't be acceptable.

Heard some comms say that England's side were a bit old and hadn't been refreshed enough since 2019. But couldn't Australia have made the same excuse? They're a relatively old team that not only has much of the same team from 2019 but also a decent chunk of the 2015 winning squad as well.

After the first two matches, would've been easy for Australia to mentally give it up, especially after the intense amount of overseas Test cricket much of their side has played this year. But they've used their experience as an asset and managed to turn their tournament around.

Seems the opposite occurred with England after their poor start; almost as if they thought "well, we won it in 2019 so it's not that big a deal if we flop here."

Just seems to be a cultural/mental issue as much as anything.

Agree with a lot of this tbh. But one massive difference between 2019 to where we are now has to be Eoin Morgan.......his retirement has just illustrated how absolutely massive his input and influence was over our ODI side.

 

[Shri]

I think I had pointed out earlier here that I didn’t buy the reason/ excuse that the team was too old because several other sides, including Australia and India, had players in the same age bracket. There did seem to be a lack of resilience from some of the main players that I find hard to stomach. That starts considerably with Buttler, Root and Bairstow. They ought to take a long look at themselves.

Bairstow is coming back from injury so I wouldn't blame him too much. Also wouldn't have let him slot straight back in without more games and match practice.

He had played 6 ODIs in 2022 after which he did not play ODIs for 13 months. 3 games he failed in before the WC began and he shouldn't have been picked.

Root and Buttler crumbled tho

 

[Molehill]

Yeah I see your point, can't see it happening in this particular case though.

Have heard people compare him to Cummins in that respect, but it really isn't the same at all. Pat wasn't even 24 yet when he made his return to Test cricket in India, Archer was already that age before he made his international dayboo.


You may be right about him being able to play at least some occasional white ball cricket for England. But that really is the best you can hope for imo

Either way you look at it, he's still England's best white ball seamer and if fit would've made a big difference. And yes, I can only see him playing white ball cricket from now on.

But if you take the two best seamers out of most teams you create quite a hole......although that still doesn't excuse the batting woes.

 

[Molehill]

Agree with a lot of this tbh. But one massive difference between 2019 to where we are now has to be Eoin Morgan.......his retirement has just illustrated how absolutely massive his input and influence was over our ODI side.

And yet we pretty much cruised to the World T20 without him just 12 months ago. The main issue has been batsmen out of form and having not played enough ODI Cricket in the lead up to the tournament.

 

[Burgey]

Really, you all know 2019 was just a fluke and they’re just back to playing how England always does.

 

[Molehill]

Really, you all know 2019 was just a fluke and they’re just back to playing how England always does.

Probably true, but at least we've got 2019.

Somewhat ironic that we've got the best overall record in T20 World Cups now.

 

[Burgey]

It’s the lesser format and requires the shortest attention span. Makes sense if England was going to be good at any format it would be that one.

 

[Aidan11]

Really, you all know 2019 was just a fluke and they’re just back to playing how England always does.

Yes. England play like world beaters in bilateral series and then struggle in the WC. This year though has taken them to a new low.

 

[Chin Music]

Bairstow is coming back from injury so I wouldn't blame him too much. Also wouldn't have let him slot straight back in without more games and match practice.

He had played 6 ODIs in 2022 after which he did not play ODIs for 13 months. 3 games he failed in before the WC began and he shouldn't have been picked.

Root and Buttler crumbled tho

It really isn't much of an excuse that he was back from injury. It was a bit of a reason for his rustiness in the earlier part of the English summer, but not by the time he had got to India. In theory, he was a reasonable nailed on pick. In practice, he's just sucked.

 

[Burgey]

Bairstow is coming back from injury so I wouldn't blame him too much. Also wouldn't have let him slot straight back in without more games and match practice.

He had played 6 ODIs in 2022 after which he did not play ODIs for 13 months. 3 games he failed in before the WC began and he shouldn't have been picked.

Root and Buttler crumbled tho

Coming back from injury? He’s been back for about 8 months hasn’t he?

 

[Chin Music]

Yes. England play like world beaters in bilateral series and then struggle in the WC. This year though has taken them to a new low.

In all honest, we hadn't done so well in bilaterals for the last couple of years, although we had barely any continuity with the sides that we had put out, and rather crucially the main test players hadn't played enough.

 

[Adders]

Really, you all know 2019 was just a fluke and they’re just back to playing how England always does.

Meh, we managed to win a world cup and **** up Australia pretty bad on quite a few occasions during that "flukey" period so I'll take it.

481 will never get old.......but I do agree. Extremely flukey.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Coming back from injury? He’s been back for about 8 months hasn’t he?

Been eating for 8 months judged by the size of him.

 

[Sunster25]

At it's heart, it's been the form of Bairstow, Buttler and Root that has really hurt us.

Malan and Stokes have done OK, and the bowling hasn't performed much worse than we would have expected. Our white ball success in recently has been built predominantly around our batting.

But 3 of our big guns have completely misfired. Players like Livingston and Mo have been in too early and haven't been able to rescue us but the real damage had already been done.

I think we need to look at the captaincy with Buttler. I'm not unhappy with him as skipper but has keeping and captaining impacted his batting?

If it has, then maybe he needs to give it up as he's been a million miles away from his best and that can't continue.

They have been poor in this format since the last World Cup. Kohli has scored as many ODIs tons in the last 12 months than Bairstow, Root, Stokes and Buttler have combined since the 2019 WC. So it should not come as any surprise.